Was a Rick Berman a bad choice to run the Star Trek Franchise after Gene Roddenberry died?

[StarCruiser]

The problem on the writing side can also be that - the writing team are just "writers" (staff writers) who write a Soap Opera one week, a sitcom the next and Star Trek for the week after that.

Some of them are dang good writers but, too many aren't...

 

[Dukhat]

For ENT itself, they won't say it but I think The Phantom Menace proving to them that prequels could be a thing made Rick Berman decide to do a prequel to Star Trek.

Oh, I'm almost certain that was the case, although UPN didn't think the prequel idea would attract enough viewers, so they wanted Berman & Braga to come up with something more science-fictiony. So B&B pulled the Temporal Cold War idea out of their asses to appease UPN but never really had any intention of developing it other than 'something weird going on in the background.'

 

[diankra]

Surely doing a prequel was just looking for 'Selling points' after the comparative disappointment of Voyager? Another post-TNG ship would just have been another ship, even if it was another Enterprise, but 'A prequel to it all'!!!!?

 

[Dukhat]

Surely doing a prequel was just looking for 'Selling points' after the comparative disappointment of Voyager? Another post-TNG ship would just have been another ship, even if it was another Enterprise, but 'A prequel to it all'!!!!?

There were really only three choices:

1. Prequel
2. Same era
3. Far future

If they were going to do the same era, they might as well have continued with Voyager in the Alpha Quadrant. They probably had no idea what to do in a far future era, but the prequel idea had a selling point, as you say: the formation of the Federation. Unfortunately, there was very little of that in ENT, as the show was just as episodic as Voyager (and had the same production values as well for a show taking place 200 years before it.)

 

[DarthPipes]

To the extent of filtering out one person’s worst ideas, it’s fine. But they basically forced Voyager and Enterprise to be completely risk averse and until Ent season 3 vetoed everything that asked for viewer investment or deviated from the episodic TNG template.

Berman was a huge part in making TNG a great show. But then the audience evolved and instead of letting the show evolve with it, photocopied the TNG formula over to less and less compelling characters and tried to use cheaper and cheaper sexuality to boost ratings.

Excellent point. Dear Doctor is a great example where Archer and Phlox were supposed to disagree but the network wanted everyone to be on board with the captain's decision. Their idea of Enterprise being "daring" was gel rubdowns and catsuits. Paramount was a major part of the problem when it came to Star Trek becoming stale.

A fair point was raised about Berman being flexible. He had the ideas behind episodes like Darmok and Family but later relented and knew it was correct to do so. Berman should never have been a script guy for Star Trek.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The prequel wasn’t a bad idea. Just execution was a disaster. They combined the worst of being simple and reductionist for the episode stories with the worst of convoluted time travel stories.

Dear Doctor is a big example. They should have had the prime directive come about through intervening in a prewar culture and it leading to terrible consequences. Instead Archer pulls it out if his butt in the coldest most inhuman situation possible.

Honestly, I think if I looked hard enough at old posts from 2001 under the old username I had back then, I could probably find a post describing the show I wanted after Voyager that sounds very similar to ST: Picard. Only obviously, no expectation they could get Patrick Stewart to do it.

 

[Henoch]

Their idea of Enterprise being "daring" was gel rubdowns and catsuits.

My favorite gel rubdown scene was quite brilliant:

Spoiler: Gel Rubdown

 

[Lord Garth]

Honestly, I think if I looked hard enough at old posts from 2001 under the old username I had back then, I could probably find a post describing the show I wanted after Voyager that sounds very similar to ST: Picard. Only obviously, no expectation they could get Patrick Stewart to do it.

Almost every post before 2007 has been pruned. Which annoys me to no end. Most of the posts from the first time I was here are gone.

But, when a new series was announced in November 2015, I thought the next series would be picking up where the 2009 Film left off on the Prime Timeline end. So Picard is mostly the series I thought we'd get when we first heard they'd be bringing Star Trek back to TV. The "mostly" being because, like you, I didn't think they'd actually have Picard in it.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I’ve never heard about anyone saying the improvement came because the Klingons and Romulans came in. The quality of writing improved across the board and became character driven and relatable. The situations became less campy and the tone got less sanctimonious but without discarding the idealism at the show’s philosophical core.

I have, and obviously we don't chat in the same circles, and I wouldn't consider the 1st 2 seasons of TNG campy, it had it's tumbles like most new shows do, and later seasons of the series shared it's dose of duds, the writing was was it was and I didn't see much of an improvement besides expanding the Star Trek Universe. As for Berman there was more on his plate than just producing Star Trek shows; there were people over him and he had to please them and bringing in a new generation of watchers, and not alienating fans and also selling merchandise was the goal. He didn't own Star Trek, many of these executive decisions are closed door decisions and if the studio wants Klingons or Borg or whatever sells the product, he needs to provide.

And when did Berman get slammed for trying new ideas? He gets slammed for not having new enough ideas.

Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise were not new ideas??? He was criticized for those shows.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Voyager certainly wasn’t a new idea. It was TNG with different faces. Ok, the premise was a new idea. But the premise isn’t anyone’s problem with Voyager, it was the way it recycled tropes, made too many characters annoying or dull and took no risks.

Certainly some of the most memorable season 3 and 4 eps were about Klingons and Romulans. But The Defector would be just as great a script if they made up some other alien race.

More so in season 1 but also in the weaker season 2 episodes, the framing of the dialog was stiff and simplistic and showed the human race as sanctimonious emotionally muted party poopers.

Later seasons had weak episodes too, but until season 7 far less frequently, and when they were weak it was usually more a problem of having a badly conceived episode premise.

 

[Omegaphallic]

Berman era had 25 seasons over four series, hundreds of episodes, hundreds dollars generated in merchandise revenue, movies, its was orders of magnitude more successful the Gene Roddenberry's era, up till now the Berman era was the single most successful TV

 

[C.E. Evans]

It seemed--at least to me--that Rick Berman's biggest strength was in delivering product on time and on budget, something that Roddenberry allegedly had trouble doing. His greatest weakness might have been a too faithful devotion to "Gene's vision" that maybe even Roddenberry himself probably would have had issues with had he lived longer and in been better health, IMO.

I tend to agree that Berman may have stayed too long as far as the creative side of things goes. Personally, I think he should have left after the first or second season of DS9.

 

[Armus]

Later seasons had weak episodes too, but until season 7 far less frequently, and when they were weak it was usually more a problem of having a badly conceived episode premise.

The later seasons of TNG suffer from different shortcomings than the earlier seasons. Seasons 6-7 episodes often feel bland and unexciting, there is too little exploring or alien encounters, too much technobabble, too many family of the week stories and the music is dreary. Patrick Stewart's performances seem a little softer too. I think season 7 has the weakest ratio of good to bad episodes although there are some gems like The Pegasus and Lower Decks.

 

[MAGolding]

The problem on the writing side can also be that - the writing team are just "writers" (staff writers) who write a Soap Opera one week, a sitcom the next and Star Trek for the week after that.

Some of them are dang good writers but, too many aren't...

Staff writers are writers who are hired as members of the writing staff of a specific series. They only write for that series if they are staff writers.

writers who write for a bunch of different shows at more or less the same time are called freelance writers and are not on the staff of any specific show..

 

[F. King Daniel]

It seemed--at least to me--that Rick Berman's biggest strength was in delivering product on time and on budget, something that Roddenberry allegedly had trouble doing. His greatest weakness might have been a too faithful devotion to "Gene's vision" that maybe even Roddenberry himself probably would have had issues with had he lived longer and in been better health, IMO.

I tend to agree that Berman may have stayed too long as far as the creative side of things goes. Personally, I think he should have left after the first or second season of DS9.

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding time and budget. Like many of the recent-ish Marvel Netflix and other streaming shows, a lot of his Trek felt like a contractual obligation being fulfilled rather than a creative vision being realised.

 

[JesterFace]

What about Michael Piller? He had a lot to do with Rick Berman.
Is it a completely newb question to ask why he wasn't chosen to take over after Gene? Or was he asked and he declined?
Honestly, I don't know.
I should know, but it turns out I don't.

 

[Armus]

What about Michael Piller? He had a lot to do with Rick Berman.
Is it a completely newb question to ask why he wasn't chosen to take over after Gene? Or was he asked and he declined?
Honestly, I don't know.
I should know, but it turns out I don't.

Michael Piller was selected by Berman and Rodenberry to head the TNG writing staff. Piller worked for Berman. Berman would not have been sidelined for Piller to run the franchise.

 

[JesterFace]

Berman would not have been sidelined for Piller to run the franchise.

Might be interesting to know how that would have ended up if Piller had taken over.

 

[Jayson1]

I think Pillar was wanting to get away from Trek by the time it would make sense to move on from Berman. He might have stayed for that extra power and I am guessing more money but I also think he wanted to go explore other idea's. I heard he was a real writers, writer. He liked writing about new stuff and maybe he was just ready to do something new after being with Trek for so long.

Jason

 

[Lord Garth]

What about Michael Piller? He had a lot to do with Rick Berman.
Is it a completely newb question to ask why he wasn't chosen to take over after Gene? Or was he asked and he declined?
Honestly, I don't know.
I should know, but it turns out I don't.

While I question some of Rick Berman's choices, he wasn't out of his depth. At least not on the TV end. There's a lot more to running a show than just writing. Micheal Piller might've been out of his depth.

 

[Armus]

Might be interesting to know how that would have ended up if Piller had taken over.

Piller co created DS9 and Voyager with Berman so he probably had more say in the early development of both shows than if he had merely been the head writer, as he was on TNG.

 

[The Wormhole]

Is it a completely newb question to ask why he wasn't chosen to take over after Gene? Or was he asked and he declined?

Piller didn't even begin on TNG until during its third season, at which point Berman pretty much was running the show with Roddenberry being primarily a figurehead. So the reason Piller didn't take over the franchise from Roddenberry was because Berman essentially already had control of the franchise by the time Piller was even hired.

 

[JesterFace]

Piller didn't even begin on TNG until during its third season, at which point Berman pretty much was running the show with Roddenberry being primarily a figurehead. So the reason Piller didn't take over the franchise from Roddenberry was because Berman essentially already had control of the franchise by the time Piller was even hired.

Anyone else agree with me in that TNG really began after Piller joined the crew?