Warptugs and cargo pods

[Wingsley]

The funny thing about the ENT era is that, on the one hand, you have the bulk of the series, (before the Romulan War) and then there's "These Are the Voyages..." six years later after the rest of the series, and also safely after the war. So there's sufficient time elapsed between the beginning of the series ("Broken Bow") and the finale so that many things could have developed. All told, ENT covers a ten-year time span.

It seems that the ENT era was a momentus decade of change for both Earth and other worlds that would go on to form the Federation. For most of ENT, trade and cargo hauls to Earth stations would have been limited. But by the end of ENT, it seems likely that this situation changed entirely. I would speculate that automated wartugs were in flight the whole time, but there were fewer in the beginning and many by the later half of that decade.

Earth established outpost-stations along the Neutral Zone some time around the war's conclusion. Some kind of automated warptug would have to maintain supply lines for those outposts. I would even speculate that warptugs had something to do with how Earth got into war with the Romulans in the first place. Spock described the war as having been "fought with primitive atomic weapons" in crude spaceships that "allowed no quarter, no captives". Sounds like the humans got PO'd after the Romulans were caught sabotaging and destroying Earth ships, including automated supply ships; probably with mines and drones.

 

[Reverend]

During the war I think they would be more like listening posts and staging areas. Nothing big enough to justify risking a large unmanned container that close to the front lines.

As for Ent, we have no idea what went on in those 10 years in regards to the ECS,but I don't see a massive infrastructure supporting dozens of colonies just materialising in a few short years. But hey, if you want to invent circumstances to support your theories, be my guest.

 

[Wingsley]

Not inventing anything. I used the word "speculate", which should be taken that way.

Back to the future... there would be significant colonies and starbases popping up after the founding of the Federation in 2161, would there not?

I was thinking that a starbase building operation might go like this:

STARBASE / SPACE STATION GROUNDBREAKER MISSION

• 1 Spitfire-style light cruiser for security purposes while the base is first being established, if deemed necessary
• 1 warptug, with an Antares-style forward crew module to administer the tug operation, and tugging the personnel pod or pods containing the construction crew and their provisions
• 2 or more automated warptugs containing construction "kits" to assemble modules for a ready-made starbase.
• Substitute Sultana-style Class I warptug for the Spitfire and "manned" tug on low-security situations; a specialized contingent can travel as supercargo aboard the Sultana.

This basic flotilla structure would be used for establishing any small base or colony, whether it is planned as a planet-based or as a space station. The only thing that would change would be the components of the kits.
​

The Sultana looks to have less towing capacity than the automated warptugs, but it offers a higher "quality of life" for supercargo mission specialists. Sultana would be most useful for either "quick" missions or for those missions where a Class I ship's power would be needed for the mission. Depending on how fast warptugs can go, Sultana may be preferred if we assume it can tow at higher warp speeds.

 

[Starscape]

The starbase construction mission sounds good. You're going to need a lot of supplies to establish a starbase or colony, but what about after they are established? How self-sufficient do you see starbase/colonies being? Would there be an great need for lots of automated supply ships zipping about?

I had an idea for a TOS version of the Sultana and I bodged it up quickly in 3D using Connie-parts. I wanted to keep the pods tucked in as much a possible so I cut down the saucer:

Hmmm, maybe I should have called it the Raisin.

 

[Wingsley]

Starscape, that is impressive artwork! If you have the time, please show us more!

Where are the Canopus' impulse engines?

 

[Starscape]

Starscape, that is impressive artwork! If you have the time, please show us more!

Where are the Canopus' impulse engines?[/

Thanks, Wingsley! Unfortunately, the model's not really up to much, it's was mainly a test to see if my idea on the hull/pod arrangement would work: that's the best angle it's got.

The ship really needs a lot of ground-up work to make it a functional design like a custom secondary hull and... impulse engines - I forgot all about those.

I've got so many 3d project ideas at the moment they're bursting out my ears. I don't know where to start!

 

[Wingsley]

Maybe it's just me, but I can think of a couple of places where impulse engines would "fit in":

Upper saucer, 2-3 decks below the main bridge.

Aft fringe of outer saucer.

Keep up the great work. You, Reverend and Forbin must have an impressive portfolio by now.

 

[Forbin]

The starbase construction mission sounds good. You're going to need a lot of supplies to establish a starbase or colony, but what about after they are established? How self-sufficient do you see starbase/colonies being? Would there be an great need for lots of automated supply ships zipping about?

I had an idea for a TOS version of the Sultana and I bodged it up quickly in 3D using Connie-parts. I wanted to keep the pods tucked in as much a possible so I cut down the saucer:

Hmmm, maybe I should have called it the Raisin.

Nifty!
When does my royalty check arrive?

 

[Wingsley]

The starbase construction mission sounds good. You're going to need a lot of supplies to establish a starbase or colony, but what about after they are established? How self-sufficient do you see starbase/colonies being? Would there be an great need for lots of automated supply ships zipping about?

Actually, I would think that most starbases and non-military stations would typically serve as a space traffic "hub", kind of like a seaport or an airport. Automated tugs would haul more than supplies. They would haul technology, fuel (if needed), and personnel.

Let's say CPO Bradenbacker has just been assigned to Starbase 11; he will serve as Commodore Mendez' new administrative assistant. But Bradenbacker is currently serving on Andor. How does the Chief get to Starbase 11? Maybe a shuttlecraft or starship isn't available. But there is an automated warptug route, and Warptug NCC-AWT-SB11/6 will be hauling a starliner pod on its next trip, stopping off at a space station near Andor. So Bradbacker takes a shuttle to the station, waits for the tug, and rides in the starliner pod to Starbase 11. All the while, the tug is also tugging a new nacelle-repair pod for use in deep space; the repair pod will be dropped off at the starbase and be tugged to any damaged starship within range as the need arises.

So Bradenbacker and a repair pod get hauled to Starbase 11, presumably with numerous other forms of cargo, all in one trip. That's better than any starship could do.

 

[Starscape]

^^ Oh, they act as a postal service!! Why didn't you say so in the first place.

I had an idea for a TOS version of the Sultana and I bodged it up quickly in 3D using Connie-parts. I wanted to keep the pods tucked in as much a possible so I cut down the saucer:

Hmmm, maybe I should have called it the Raisin.

Nifty!
When does my royalty check arrive?

I'm sure I'll get around to it in the fullness of time, when the appropriate juncture has been reach, nothing preciptate.

 

[Wingsley]

Postal Service?

Funny you should put it that way.

I was thinking of the Antares and the automated TAS freighters as something like a UPS delivery van, and warptugs like we're discussing here as a cross between a freight train, a dirigible, and a big oil tanker ship on the ocean.

 

[Wingsley]

Another idea came to me this evening.

I recalled how the nacelles on the shuttlecraft Galileo looked so similar to the nacelles on her mothership, Kirk's Enterprise. "The Menagerie, Part I" and "Metamorphosis" pretty well established that a Class F shuttlecraft can assume limited FTL speeds.

Could Starfleet also employ micro-warptugs, in essence, scaled-down warptugs to haul very limited amounts of frieght (or personnel) that would be much smaller than a starship (and more serviceable and disposable) but much larger than a shuttlecraft (with far greater range)?

 

[Sean_McCormick]

This is my interpretation of your sketch, added the conning tower from your first sketch and mounted the deflector dish there so thet a crew module can be added in front of the drone

Class 210 automated container transport

 

[Wingsley]

Wow, that's a really interesting take on my design. I had not envisioned it that way.

You certainly did some magic with it.

I had not thought of it as a "ship in its own right" as you seem to have done. I was thinking of the main hull as more like taking a missile or torpedo shape and squashing it a little so it would be a little more oval-like from the front profile.

This shape could be an ENT-era forerunner of later Federation designs, though.

I like it.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

Might be a little too modern for the 2150ies (especially the nacelles, which i envision to be the immediate precedessor to the type used in TOS (could be called the PB-31))

Here is your suggested container loadout:

 

[Wingsley]

Hmmm.....

Interesting idea.

I'm assuming a different concept, though.

I'm assuming that a warptug carries its pods typically without trains (or maybe cartain tugs outiftted with very long nacelles could only handle trains of two or three per train). Instead, the idea I came up with (which I still haven't drawn effectively, I'll have to get cracking) is that the warptug's body is built so that the nacelle pylons have collapsible docking clamps built into the upper and lower sides, so those plyons can each handle two pods apeice, one above and one below. I also theorized a dorsal-fin attached amidships so the warptug could dock another two pods: one above, one below. That totals a possible load of six pods without any train.

My theory is that training is possible on warptugs fitted with extra-long nacelles that would be configured for a larger warp-field. Since tugs could already haul up to six pods to begin with, there may be different classes of warptugs for different levels of cargo hauling.

I still like your design, though. It would be neat to see it using ENT-era components (or maybe compnents derived from some of your Daedalus-era designs) as a 22nd-century ancestor to what has been discussed here.

Thanks for posting in this thread!

What we're discussing in the "Starbase 11" thread and the "Could a Connie crew rebuild their ship?" thread seems to make it clear to me that the TOS-era Federation (and, by logical extension, the TNG-era Federation as well) would need automated warptugs as a necessary transportation medium in their society.

 

[Maurice]

Just ran across this thread.

While working on a (since shelved) episode for a "Starship Exeter" fanfilm, I created the following concept for a cargo ship.

As is plainly obvious, the ship is based on an early Star Trek sketch by Matt Jefferies, related to the design that appeared as a desktop model of the U.S.S. Horizon seen in Sisko's office on DS9.

As that model has been dubbed "Daedalus class" by some, I dubbed this related design an Icarus class.

The idea was that the ship would tow multiple cargo pods train-like behind it at the center of mass. I thought this design would appear suitably antiquated next to the Exeter/Enterprise, and liked that the components were upside-down relative to the Enterprise design, so it was visually striking.

The top left drawing has S.S. Kon Tiki on the hull, while the lower right one bears the name U.S.S. Probert on the side.

 

[shipfisher]

Some great designs in this thread.

One thing I've always wondered about is the warp field geometry of tugs hauling long chains of cargo pods with one pair of nacelles which are physically quite a distance from some pods. Are the engines "tuned" to create a drive field with a big "throw" to encompass all the pods, perhaps at the cost of overall performance, or do the pods have something like warp field pick up coils to help extend the field around them?

 

[Wingsley]

When I started this thread, I quickly came to the realization that training would have limitations.

That's why I eventually decided to alter my concept so that the warptug robot ship could attach up to six pods directly around the core hull without training. For warptugs that could train their pods, I assumed a different class with extra-long nacelles.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Some great designs in this thread.

One thing I've always wondered about is the warp field geometry of tugs hauling long chains of cargo pods with one pair of nacelles which are physically quite a distance from some pods. Are the engines "tuned" to create a drive field with a big "throw" to encompass all the pods, perhaps at the cost of overall performance, or do the pods have something like warp field pick up coils to help extend the field around them?

Seems to me that the way to think about this is something like a freight train. The propulsion is provided by the engine, but each car has it's own set of wheels.

SO... every "pod" would have an integral "sustainer coil" to generate a static subspace field for that pod. (alternatively, you might have external coils between separate pods, but that makes the logistics just that much more complicated!). and you'd have the tug with actual warp drive... pulling each of these devices which all exist within subspace on their own already.

For a really big "train" you might end up needing multiple "engines," again like is commonly done with freight trains.... maybe a "tug" at the front and another one at the back of a row of containers?