Warp Maneuverability

[Captain_Amasov]

Can a starship actually change course while still travelling at warp speed? Let's say they wanted to turn about 180 degrees, would they have to drop out of warp first and do that or not?

I know Voyager had that whole "'Faster than light, no left or right" thing, but it also seemed to contradict other episodes.

 

[The Fatman]

I would assume they could maneuver at warp within the limits of the Structural Integrity Field. I.E. course corrections of a few degrees are probably fine, but anything more than that would probably require dropping out of warp.

 

[PTRACER]

I would imagine they would have to drop out of warp and as for turning corners, any tiny tiny movements would probably send them vastly off course.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Enterprise does it when they are pursuing Phoenix in "The Wounded"

 

[Wingsley]

Kirk's TOS Enterprise made course changes at warp all the time.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Enterprise does it when they are pursuing Phoenix in "The Wounded"

Yeah that's one of the episodes I remember, the Phoenix herself veers off to starboard pretty sharply there as well.

I guess it's something just left to the writer of the episode to decide then.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

I would say that given the speeds and distances involved these course changes are planned pretty far in advance and probably performed on autopilot, I'm talk broad sweeping turns here. Nimble maneuvering, the kind you might need in combat is probably possible, but as the above comments suggested may put unwanted stress on the ship's hull and systems. Pheonix was probably looking to get "vastly off course" very quickly, but for all we know it could have been a bumpy ride in there while doing so.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Can a starship actually change course while still travelling at warp speed? Let's say they wanted to turn about 180 degrees, would they have to drop out of warp first and do that or not?

I know Voyager had that whole "'Faster than light, no left or right" thing, but it also seemed to contradict other episodes.

Well, I s'pose that's a good thing that I never watched Voyager then... obviously, throughout all of Trek, we saw ships maneuvering at warp all the time.

It's a JJ-trek conceit that "warp drive" is sort of like Star Wars' "hyperspace." No prior trek really treated it that way.

FYI... the best way to think of how warp drive works is that the nacelles are essentially "jet engines" but they suck in the fabric of space and push it back out the back. There is some limited "vectoring" capability, and you can also adjust the relative fields of the two nacelles, which allows you to steer while at warp.

I've spent a great deal of time and energy working out my own "mechanical theory of warp drive engines" so to speak, in my "TOS Enterprise" thread over in Trek Art. You might want to check it out.

 

[Timo]

In the relevant VOY episode, "Fury", we get a very specific context for the rhyme about left and right.

Janeway: "Tom, what's the first thing they teach you about manoeuvring at warp?"
Paris: "Faster than light, no left or right. When possible, maintain a linear trajectory. Course corrections could fracture the hull."

That's the first thing they teach. That is, a general starting point. A silly rhyme that is meant to be remembered "when possible".

It's no different from saying that fighter jets should fly straight. That's very true: g-forces are hard on the structures, and a jet that maneuvers will soon be an ex-jet. But that is just a general starting point, because in order to use the jets for something worthwhile, they have to maneuver, even if it is in theory bad for them.

To be sure, the situation in "Fury" called for truly extreme maneuvering. The ship was stuck in an area of space Swiss-cheesed by "subspace vacuoles", much as in TNG "In Theory". Except it was worse: 70% of the volume was untraversable. This was not a case of gently easing the ship into a 30 degree turn along a distance of a few million miles. They were turning sharp corners on the scale of kilometers.

Nothing in "Fury" is inconsistent with the rest of Trek in this sense, then. Kirk's ship could pivot at warp 2 ("Elaan of Troyius") but probably couldn't follow Voyager through those twists and turns at any warp speed. Probably no ship could, as Voyager was specifically famed for her maneuverability.

Anyway, that pivoting thing from "Elaan of Troyius" is an interesting one. Can a ship at warp fly in any orientation other than nose first? The dialogue in that ep suggests the answer is yes. And in the opening credits, we see the ship fly at supposed high warp nose decidedly down, "forehead first". Kirk also reversed at emergency warp in "Balance of Terror".

So the real question only seems to be, can all starships fly at warp in arbitrary orientation, or are there forbidden orientations for certain ship types?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Well, if the warp-drive was anything like Alcubierre's system, maneuverability would be possible.

As the ship turned, the warp field would pull and push the ship in that direction. If you cut warp-drive the ship goes to sublight, so if you turned the ship without the warp field pointing in that direction it would slow in that direction and proceed in the new direction. Since the vessel within the warp field experiences no acceleration imposed on the vessel, there wouldn't be any stress on the hull in terms of traditional G-forces.

Considering it's likely the warp-drives are used in some capacity even in impulse-flight, either using the main engines at very low power or using a mini-warp drive running off the impulse-engine reactor, it's likely they play a role in the vessel maneuvering like it's in atmosphere when in sub-light (for maneuvering).

 

[Santaman]

I do think starships can change course at warp if needed but that they do prefer not so, I assume that even the sharpest possible turn would still be measured in AU or so because of the speed anyhow so better to get it right the first time.

 

[Deks]

Yes, the situation Voyager found itself in 'Fury' episode with the subspace vacules was rather extreme because the vacules occupied large portion of the territory in question, so there was no room for maneuvarebility at warp speeds.
Open space, where most battles and maneuvers were seen at warp velocities is a different matter, since there's room for them to move around anyhow they want.

 

[Ronald Held]

In the AWD scheme, changing the shape of the warp field would should maneuverability. I have not thought through the rates that could might be achievable.

 

[Myasishchev]

Can a starship actually change course while still travelling at warp speed? Let's say they wanted to turn about 180 degrees, would they have to drop out of warp first and do that or not?

I know Voyager had that whole "'Faster than light, no left or right" thing, but it also seemed to contradict other episodes.

Well, I s'pose that's a good thing that I never watched Voyager then... obviously, throughout all of Trek, we saw ships maneuvering at warp all the time.

It's fair enough, since Voyager writers might as well have never watched TNG.

It's a JJ-trek conceit that "warp drive" is sort of like Star Wars' "hyperspace." No prior trek really treated it that way.

I dunno. The "ending of 2001, but white" effect appears every now and again, although of course not nearly as pronounced or protracted. It's kind of inferrable from the photonic boom, or whatever it's supposed to be, that seems to precede or immediately follow the ships hitting 1c.

FYI... the best way to think of how warp drive works is that the nacelles are essentially "jet engines" but they suck in the fabric of space and push it back out the back. There is some limited "vectoring" capability, and you can also adjust the relative fields of the two nacelles, which allows you to steer while at warp.

I guess that works. Isn't the Alcubierre thing something along the lines of reducing local dark energy concentration so as to set up a pressure gradient and acheive an FTL expansion effect? I really don't know. These things are above my paygrade. It's hard enough to do the basic particle physics and evolutionary biology.

I've spent a great deal of time and energy working out my own "mechanical theory of warp drive engines" so to speak, in my "TOS Enterprise" thread over in Trek Art. You might want to check it out.

I like your work. I should see this thing.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Besides The Wounded, the stardrive section performs a 180 turn in Encounter at Farpoint, too. I had to rewatch it to make sure.

 

[Timo]

Some have pointed out that while the separation in "Farpoint" happens at extreme warp, the actual U-turn is shown happening while the stars on the background aren't particularly long streaks, but more like the slightly elongated dots associated with impulse mode.

Personally, I think the U-turn stars are just fine as high-warp streaks. They are merely seen from an unfamiliar angle here... And the dialogue certainly suggests that the separation happened at extreme warp, whilst later plot twists imply that the saucer continued at high warp as well (and did a U-turn of its own, to reach Deneb IV).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I tend to think warp drive is a system that is only used for covering very large distances, sort of like the jumpgates in B5 or the fold engines in Macross. As such, you're usually going to a specific destination anyway, so you don't usually NEED to change course unless something weird happens. You can, but it's complicated, and doesn't usually help you much.

As I've said often enough, "sublight" speeds should probably be measured in the tens or hundreds of kps, with starships being able to drop out of warp in specific locations (say, 2000km off your starboard bow) only if they have REALLY powerful navigational computers. Most actual maneuvers would otherwise take place at lower impulse velocities, with warp drives being relegated to long interplanetary/interstellar voyages.

 

[Cyke101]

It's a JJ-trek conceit that "warp drive" is sort of like Star Wars' "hyperspace." No prior trek really treated it that way.

Oh, I don't know about that. One important difference is that in hyperspace, you can't change course while traveling, but I believe the JJprise was on the verge of changing course in midwarp a few times (such as when the crew debated whether to go to Earth or to join the fleet), at least hinting that it was possible to maintain warp speeds while changing course.

But yeah, the Voyager episode that stated that turning during warp was impossible? I'd just chalk that up to a low feat one-shot deal, as we've seen warp course changes since the 1960s. We even see the Prometheus splitting up into three parts and flanking a Nebula while at warp.

 

[Timo]

the Voyager episode that stated that turning during warp was impossible?

But there was no such episode.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

the Voyager episode that stated that turning during warp was impossible?

But there was no such episode.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I'd like to forget Fury, too. After all, I'm so sure Voyager ignored that rule several times that season anyway.

According to Memory Alpha:

• This episode first establishes the Starfleet guideline "Faster than light, no left or right" or "Maintain a linear trajectory wherever possible while at warp speed". This is the only episode in any of the modern Trek series to place a restriction on the movement of a vessel at warp speed. Consequently, this is the only episode where a starship is not able to maneuver at warp speeds.

Just one big "ugh" and one pretty big nit if you ask me. In the face of 40+ years of continuity, I think it deserves to be overlooked, undeserving of being reconciled.