WARNING: All artists

[Pleiades]

REGARDING AN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS ISSUE

I apolagise that I have not been here long, however one of my contacts has produced something quite alarming to me. First he noticed his ship picture was (apparently) being made into a wooden model by an Ebay seller.

He has also found that my artwork has fallen victim to the same issue. Further to this I have found an entire archive of items that I cannot make my mind up about, either this is a trick or it is a real problem.

I request that ALL artists check this user incase any Intellectual Property rights have been violated.

Once again I apolagise to you all for posting a potentially harmless issue and for possibly making an idiot of myself. Otherwise I am unsure as to weather anything can be done about this due to who actually owns and STAR TREK related work (Paramount?).

http://search.stores.ebay.com/MYASI...LLERYQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ88074310QQsofpZ0

Regards
David

PS: If this is a real issue then I also request that this is posted at SCIFI-MESHES if need be when the server is back up and running.

 

[Michael]

That might also be of interest to you.

 

[Pleiades]

I apolagise, I didn't notice this, these board change faster than my normal ones.

Request close.

 

[Plecostomus]

Amazing isn't it. I know it's a trifle compared to the theft of the artwork but that bastard stole the technical writeup I made for Borgman.

Can we get one of these threads stickied somewhere where the art-folks can see 'em? The more people who complain to Ebay the sooner this asshole gets shut down.

 

[Michael]

No, that's not what I wanted to imply. It's a good thing you make more people aware of this issue.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I apolagise, I didn't notice this, these board change faster than my normal ones.

Request close.

I can do that if you want or I can move this to Trek Art. This is an issue that, in general, I don't have a lot of knowledge about, so it's your call. I know there's a lot of people who don't go to Misc who might want to know about this.

 

[Pleiades]

Yeah thats a good idea, if you move it to the art section, thanks. I put it here because it was at the head of the forum.

Cheers.

 

[BK613]

I agree, needs a sticky

 

[B.J.]

Hmm. I see a lot of Masao's ships in there, from his Starfleet Museum designs.

 

[Vance]

Oh no! He stole designs based on designs stolen from Star Trek, and he's making custom 3-D wooden models which damage us in no way whatsoever. Dammit, the man must be made to suffer! Let's shoot his dog!

Tell ya what. If you guys are really that upset about 'your' designs being 'stolen', why not go to the real IP holders of all this (CBS/Paramount) and see what they'll say about your objections. Could be a very englightening and entertaining experience. I somehow don't think "The guy is stealing the IP that I stole from you!" will be all that persuasive, but you can try.

Or, you could just email the guy and say "You, Goomba, can you say 'based on a fan design by X'" for each model and have done with it?

 

[BorgMan]

Vance, I am not at all implying that I stole from Paramount. What I am saying, though, is that I'm not happy with the fact that he uses something that I made and is not crediting me at all. He cut off a logo that I used to identify it as mine, and as such I'm certain he's not willing to do such a thing. If Paramount came by and said *hey, nice ship, we'll take it* I would be pissed because I didn't get any recognition for my labor, but for the rest I wouldn't mind; it's their property. He uses a design which is now his own but is selling it as his own.

 

[Ziz]

Maybe you guys should start doing watermarks across the middle of the image rather than a little sig in the corner that can be snipped off. Then guys like this either won't bother in the first place, or if they are that stupid, it will be obvious to everyone else where the image came from.

 

[ancient]

Watermarks kind of destroy the look of the art and shouldn't be needed, imo.

I rescently got contacted by a guy who wanted to CG one of my designs. He includes a little 'created by' credit in the corner of his images and doesn't try to pass it off as his own so I'm more than happy to let a fellow fan play with it.

All it takes is not acting like an ass and stealing from the artists who came up with those designs. It ain't hard.

 

[Vance]

But it works both ways. The guy isn't selling other people's art directly, nor does he seem to be intending to. Quickly declaring that his life should be ruined because he's doing fan projects of fan projects is just petty and utterly rediculous.

Have any of you guys thought to just email him and ask for 'due credit'? Or did you quickly resort to a hissy-fit instead?

 

[BorgMan]

As I stated in my last post, the option to credit was there; he cut it off. Plus, he copied a portion of text from the same source, again removing the crediting parts. So no, I haven't asked him. It's just that he didn't use two options of crediting...

 

[Pleiades]

Thats fair enough if he would have given the option, but I fail to see how any of his actions can be justified without any interaction with creators of the work.

I agree that our work could equally be like 'stealing' from paramount, the issue arises when he is making a profit from it without any form of agreement, especially considering most artists do this for a hobby and have no intention of making profits from it.

The classification of his sales as a 'fan project' I do not think is fair on the artists, many weeks of work can go into these pieces and I fail to see how him selling an of it deserves any defense.

Have any of you guys thought to just email him and ask for 'due credit'?

Like he asked us for permission? Fine if he asked but he didnt, hence the issues had. Personally I don't really care, my specific project listed there isn't worth anything, it was a box model, but still, thats no reason for stealing in my eyes.

 

[Vance]

Thats fair enough if he would have given the option, but I fail to see how any of his actions can be justified without any interaction with creators of the work.

Did you call Paramount and ask them? CBS? Karen Dick? Rick Sternbach? Aridas Sofia? Anyone? Is every single web page, image, and post you have plastered with appropriate credit? I'm betting not.

I agree that our work could equally be like 'stealing' from paramount, the issue arises when he is making a profit from it without any form of agreement, especially considering most artists do this for a hobby and have no intention of making profits from it.

Not 'could', 'is'. Profit has absolutely no bearing, whatsoever, on copyright and trademark infringement. That's an internet myth and is completely a bunch of bullshit. Let me spell this out for you in very simple terms, you are just as guilty as he is, and you are therefore a big-ass hypocrite.

Until you get that through your head, I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for you. Now, if you get that, reign in the little-girl hissy fit a bit, maybe you'll start to make sense of what's going on.

He's a fan doing pretty good work, from what I see, and doesn't seem to be trying to really 'cash in'. Seems more like he (like you) may not understand or appreciate the real rights going on here. You could email him, let him know what's up, or , heaven forbid, get him actively involved productively in the fan community.

Or, alternatively, you could treaten to have him sued and arrested because your panties are in a knot and you're just that much of a petty asshole of a so-called 'fan' who has completely and utterly forgot what being a fan's all about.

And, it's true, you could email him and he could be a complete dick about things. At that point, sure, have at it. But we're not there yet. Right now, you're the dick, and hypocrite, and just as bad of a trademark theif as he is.

So, why not grow the hell up and do what's right first? Just a thought.

 

[Pleiades]

Okay, I shall be the mature one and explain.

It is not about the fact he is reproducing the items, fine if he wants to do that thats not my problem.
He can modify my work, make models from it whatever, the fact remains that my work is not for sale.

Copyright grants certain rights that are initially exclusive to its owner. Based on these rights, the copyright owner, subject to copyright law exceptions, controls who may

• copy the work
• issue copies of the work to the public
• rent or lend the work to the public
• perform, show or play the work in public
• communicate the work to the public - this includes broadcasting of a work and also electronic transmission and
• make an adaptation of the work or do any of the above in relation to an adaptation

The definition of "Public" in FE and HE is thought to include its staff and students. So it may be infringement under the right of communication to the public to include on the FE or HE intranet or internet, a student's or a copyright owner's work without their permission.

The bottom line is, its about the sale, I do not claim Star Trek as mine or any 'Starship design', and lets face it, most if not all of us can identify a ''Star Trek'' fan model or creation.

As far as legalities go
I believe that the Berne Convention (of which Indonesia is a member of) states in Appendix: Article 4, part 4 subsection iii.

the sending of the copies and their subsequent distribution to recipients is without any commercial purpose; and

I am not a law student, but someone in law may be able to interperate this correctly for me as I am unsure exactly what items this covers, however the convention is for '' Protection of Literary and Artistic Works''.

That would be perfectly fine for paramount to attack most artists, though to no avail due to the fact we do not produce any money from it, plus the fact that non of my actual models are directly based from Paramount owned material, again a case which they could of course take to the creators of copies of Star Trek material, again with no real solution due to numbers of artists creating them.

I mean absolutely no harm or to throw such a ''Hissy fit'' at anything, I am just trying to give an idea of what we as artists feel about our works being SOLD.

 

[S'kai]

Send him a letter asking for a Piece of the Action, and if he refuses, sic Paramount/CBS on him. The one thing they have is lots of lawyers who can make his life miserable. If you don't want to do that to a fellow human being, fuhgeddaboutit.

 

[Shaw]

Maybe you guys should stop putting your stuff up on the internet.

I, long ago, opted for a share-and-share-a-like license for everything I make and display on the net. I have seen my work (and not just Trek based stuff, as that is a very small percentage of my efforts displayed on the net) copied and referenced throughout the net (including word for word quoting on Wikipedia without attribution).

From what you've linked to, this guy is really only selling his time and energy in making a physical model and little else. Frankly you guys should be taking it as a complement that someone liked your designs enough to consider basing a project in a totally different medium on them.

But if you guys are up-in-arms over this, stop displaying your stuff (or get a license from CBS). If you are upset that someone else has a skill (creating wooden models) that is sellable that you lack, learn it and start making your own sellable stuff. It is hard to sell 3D models to the public... but physical ones the average person will pay for.

If you think your stuff is really something note worthy, you should buy his models, sign the base, and resell them as limited edition, sign by the designer. Up the price by $50 and see who bites. But considering that he is selling those models before creating them, I'm guessing that there isn't a ton of interest.