"Waltz": does the divide persist to this day?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Ragitsu, Nov 29, 2021.

  1. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commander Red Shirt

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    Good afternoon.

    Are folks still split on whether Waltz is brilliant or blatant?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why can't it be both? Blatantly brilliant.
     
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  3. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commander Red Shirt

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    ...or brilliantly blatant.

    Seriously speaking, however, I seem to recall adoration for Alaimo's performance in addition to incredulity expressed at Dukat's explosive outburst towards the Bajora (it was said that his views were highly out-of-character).
     
  4. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that up until this point Dukat tries to mask his true feelings in almost every interaction he has with others. In my opinion his views in Waltz are completely in character...just that his control has slipped. From here on, he's more willing to display the megalomania that was always there.
     
  5. Gul Scorpius

    Gul Scorpius Ensign Newbie

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    I am firmly in the camp that it is brilliant.
     
  6. ED-209

    ED-209 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A stage version of Waltz would rock.
     
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  7. Vash

    Vash Commander Red Shirt

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    By ‘blatant’ do you mean is it too over the top about Sisko calling Dukat “truly evil?" According to memory alpha, it was the writers’ intention to make sure Dukat wasn’t portrayed as having possible redeeming qualities.

    @ananta did a wonderful analysis of this in his Rewatch Odyssey thread, on page 71. As he notes, the main problem is conflating mental illness - malignant narcissism - with evil. But, whether or not Dukat is pure evil by nature, he has committed undeniably evil acts.

    I’d say the episode is somewhere between blatant and brilliant :hugegrin:
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
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  8. Hobbit

    Hobbit Ensign Newbie

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    Waltz, and the other Dukat stuff that follows, is influenced by the decision in the writing room to make it as clear as possible that Dukat was evil, because they were worried that fans were finding him too charming and defending him online. It has some compelling moments, but it's also ham-fisted and the beginning of the deliberate attempt to depict the character in a way that feels far too forced and silly. Yes, he absolutely committed disgusting actions, but there are ways to show this without turning him into something as flat and boring as they did here.
     
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  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Neither? Good but flawed?

    Dukat was a charming sociopath, it was a natural development for his character to drop the charming and just be a sociopath. Especially after the occupation arc it was inevitable. But in execution it became a bit over the top, and the whole Pah'Wraith arc was badly executed.
     
  10. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commander Red Shirt

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    The "blatant" parts were Dukat becoming foaming-at-the-mouth angry and shouting that he should have killed the Bajorans...along with Benjamin clearly calling him evil at the end of the episode. I shudder to think that fans needed reminding that Dukat was a bad guy: charismatic in the extreme, but still solidly immoral. Also, yes, he morphs into something of a Saturday morning cartoon villain after the episode's conclusion.