It's odd to offer an opinion? Also, this thread was about comparing TNG to TOS? True, I'm partial to TOS, but I was not making any such comparison. Regardless, opinions about how many "good" episodes each series had will vary.
Wait, Season 1 really IS good!
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It's odd to offer an opinion? Also, this thread was about comparing TNG to TOS? True, I'm partial to TOS, but I was not making any such comparison. Regardless, opinions about how many "good" episodes each series had will vary.
I think the reason why it feels fresh is because we have alien races that are truly alien. The Anticcans and the Sele are weird, and the mystery surrounding the entity from the cloud is solved with some fun. Also, the HD does enhance this episode because watching the remastered, some of those effects were beautiful, like the cloud or just the energy light. I still don't like Crusher's head wear thing though.
See, I always liked the headwear. It was a rare taste of STNG being really prescient with wearable devices/augmented reality. Today there's development on all these fronts and computing/sensing devices will be more integrated than ever rather than stand-alone devices.I think the reason why it feels fresh is because we have alien races that are truly alien. The Anticcans and the Sele are weird, and the mystery surrounding the entity from the cloud is solved with some fun. Also, the HD does enhance this episode because watching the remastered, some of those effects were beautiful, like the cloud or just the energy light. I still don't like Crusher's head wear thing though.
You refer to first watching the show..and at the time TOS was the only show to compare, hence my comparison.
Yes, opinions vary but there's no doubt with a larger sample size there are far more good STNG episodes than TOS episodes even if ranked conservatively. Season 1 of STNG is significantly better than season 3 of TOS.
Utter nonsense. First you talk about sample size differences and then you go on to compare Season 1 of TNG (26 episodes) versus Season 3 of TOS (24 episodes, a whopping 2 fewer). Again, I merely opined about TNG overall and season 1 specifically.
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Exactly..176 to 79 episodes, yet the two often quoted "worst seasons" of both shows (and 1/3rd of all of TOS) isn't even a comparison. TOS season 3 is a disaster, while STNG's season 1 (1/7th of the show) is still much better.
Irrelevant comparisons aside, what I think we can agree on is that TNG lasted 4 seasons longer than TOS.
I think the reason why it feels fresh is because we have alien races that are truly alien. The Anticcans and the Sele are weird, and the mystery surrounding the entity from the cloud is solved with some fun. Also, the HD does enhance this episode because watching the remastered, some of those effects were beautiful, like the cloud or just the energy light. I still don't like Crusher's head wear thing though.
I have trouble getting fully on board with "Lonely Among Us" -- the fact that it ends with "the ambassador we're transporting has been killed, and the corpse is about to be eaten!" played as a comic beat stands out in my mind as one of the most WTF moments in a WTF season.
BUT I must admit I have some real love for the Selay and the Anticans. They're wonderfully weird, and I'm not even bothered by the inflexible rubber masks. I'm perpetually fascinated that Marc Alaimo is inside that dog head.
I also think the atmospheric lighting in this episode is excellent, and would have liked that lighting scheme to be more predominant in the series. And I have always been a big fan of the TNG body possession episodes in general, and I appreciate this as the first in that loooooooong line.
Edit: I once saw someone remark that the Selay were often milling about the Promenade on DS9. DS9 is the show I've watched more than any other, and I've never noticed this. Is this something anyone else has observed?
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I love seasons 1 and 2, and sometimes feel a little bit at odds with the rest of fandom about the 'popular opinion' that the show improved in the third year.... I tend to the view that it had a major change of focus, from "incident led" stories in the first two years to the "character led" stories TNG became known for.... but there's a little part of me that kinda wishes I could've seen a bit more of that early style later on.... it felt like TNG took more risks in the beginning....
What I like about the early seasons of TNG was that the viewer felt like he really was on a mission with the crew to discover new life and boldly go...in the later seasons it was more like this is a good drama show that happens to take place on a starship. If TNG was a "TOS Clone" in seasons 1-2 I don't see that as a bad thing at all. As for the quality of the stories and productions values in between seasons 2 and 3, I don't see the drastic shift, except for a major change in the cinematography, and different uniforms.
Came to the end of season 1 last night with "Conspiracy" and "The Neutral Zone".
I had forgotten how much I LOVE "Conspiracy". Just a completely offbeat, creepy, tough little episode that would never have been attempted in the later years. Fantastic, from start to finish and easily in my top 20, probably top 10 episodes.
The whole rewatching of season 1 has been a pleasure. So many good episodes, and good ideas, I had just forgotten about/not appreciated at the time. The last stretch of eight episodes were particularly strong.
Mind you, watching it on blu does make the stunt doubles REALLY easy to spot...
I had forgotten how much I LOVE "Conspiracy". Just a completely offbeat, creepy, tough little episode that would never have been attempted in the later years. Fantastic, from start to finish and easily in my top 20, probably top 10 episodes.
The whole rewatching of season 1 has been a pleasure. So many good episodes, and good ideas, I had just forgotten about/not appreciated at the time. The last stretch of eight episodes were particularly strong.
Mind you, watching it on blu does make the stunt doubles REALLY easy to spot...
I agree so much. Conspiracy was DARING. It didn't reach its full potential--everything at Starfleet Command went too quickly, wish this had been a 2-parter--but damn it was good. That secret captains' meeting at the beginning?...loved that.Came to the end of season 1 last night with "Conspiracy" and "The Neutral Zone".
I had forgotten how much I LOVE "Conspiracy". Just a completely offbeat, creepy, tough little episode that would never have been attempted in the later years. Fantastic, from start to finish and easily in my top 20, probably top 10 episodes.
The whole rewatching of season 1 has been a pleasure. So many good episodes, and good ideas, I had just forgotten about/not appreciated at the time. The last stretch of eight episodes were particularly strong.
Mind you, watching it on blu does make the stunt doubles REALLY easy to spot...
I also just watched "Conspiracy" and it remains one of my favorite episodes of the run. This was the direction I hoped the show was going in; darker, more hard hitting and truly frightening at times. However, the revolving door of writers and producers washed this episode away. It deserved a follow up.
Great things about it that were lost in later seasons and films:
1) How utterly alien and apart Worf is.
2) How skilled Riker was in a fight (just a two years later, you'd never see Riker delivering kicks like that - he'd split his pants)
3) How far away the Enterprise was from everyone else and Earth. It was a BIG DEAL for the Enterprise to return home. They were on a 20 year mission, that's why families were there. Geordi mentions how much trouble they should have gotten in for returning to Earth. It was a much bigger galaxy then.
4) The history with Beverly and Picard. Walker Keel was a great sympbol of that history and his death carried weight.
5) How TNG pushed the evevlope for TV: I mean, Picard and Riker blew Remmick's damned head off! People whine about Glenn and Abraham getting pulped on The Walking Dead, but TNG peeled a guy's skin off and showed his head exploding. And THEN the charred, rotting corpse as the icky alien thing came screaming out! At 7 pm on Channel damned 11!
It's just amusing how Roddenberry bitched about Kirk killing a Ceti Eel in TWOK, but was okay with Picard and Riker killing this poor bastard and then a ton of icky aliens.
The first season had its problems, but once it stopped trying to be TOS (which I love more than any series like ever), the season really clicked. I wish they were able to keep that momentum. Once it settled into a family space drama about rescuing Federation colonies, I started to check out.
Great things about it that were lost in later seasons and films:
1) How utterly alien and apart Worf is.
2) How skilled Riker was in a fight (just a two years later, you'd never see Riker delivering kicks like that - he'd split his pants)
3) How far away the Enterprise was from everyone else and Earth. It was a BIG DEAL for the Enterprise to return home. They were on a 20 year mission, that's why families were there. Geordi mentions how much trouble they should have gotten in for returning to Earth. It was a much bigger galaxy then.
4) The history with Beverly and Picard. Walker Keel was a great sympbol of that history and his death carried weight.
5) How TNG pushed the evevlope for TV: I mean, Picard and Riker blew Remmick's damned head off! People whine about Glenn and Abraham getting pulped on The Walking Dead, but TNG peeled a guy's skin off and showed his head exploding. And THEN the charred, rotting corpse as the icky alien thing came screaming out! At 7 pm on Channel damned 11!
It's just amusing how Roddenberry bitched about Kirk killing a Ceti Eel in TWOK, but was okay with Picard and Riker killing this poor bastard and then a ton of icky aliens.
The first season had its problems, but once it stopped trying to be TOS (which I love more than any series like ever), the season really clicked. I wish they were able to keep that momentum. Once it settled into a family space drama about rescuing Federation colonies, I started to check out.
Remember when Yar fought Yareena? Yes... the writing was that bad.
Totally agree with both points. They never quite forgot that sense of scope on season 1, but later seasons often felt like the Enterprise was always on milk-runs rather than galactic voyages. (To be fair, one might use Wolf 359 as the point where the ship's mission statement changes to being closer to home.)
Truthfully it's that sense of the unknown, that sense of danger, that retrospectively marks out the first couple seasons. As the show got safer, so too did a certain amount of complacency seep in. Which lasted right until the final TNG movie. Never after about 1989 was TNG ever quite so bold as it once had been.....
"Conspiracy" remains one of my favorite Trek episodes ever. I also saw it for the first time under near-perfect conditions: I discovered TNG as a kid during the 5th season, and immediately became obsessed. In my area, they would rerun old episodes at 2 AM on weeknights. I'd try to sneak downstairs to the TV to watch it, and it was a whole process to not wake up my parents... have to be careful to get through the house silently, not making any noise, not rousing the dogs, not stepping on any of the squeaky spots on the floor, not turning on any lights. Then, if I managed to successfully reach the TV, I had to sit close to it and watch at low volume, so you felt enveloped and surrounded by the program.
As unsettling as that episode is normally, imagine how terrifying it is to a 10 year old kid secretly up in the middle of the night. I can still so viscerally recall how profoundly creeped out I was by the secret-meeting scene on Dytallix B -- TERRIFYING.
I love Where No Man Has Gone Before, the score, the atmosphere of wonder and mystery, it really is the best in the first season.
I just watched "Too Short A Season," and I totally forgot how much I loved this episode. I know it focuses more on the guest star than any of the main characters, and the old-age make up on Clayton Rohner is iffy at best, but it's still a very well written and (for the most part) acted episode - Rohner's "old man" acting is a little strained. The story is a good one and, even though it is talky, it has energy and is well paced. I mean, it really does crackle with energy. It is a direction I had hoped the series was going in: exciting, mature and thought provoking adventure. Taking the best of what made Star Trek fun and updating it into "modern" sensibilities. The show was really hitting a good stride. It helps that Wesley is nowhere in sight and that the guest characters had strong motivations. Not surprising to see D.C. Fontana's name in the teleplay credits.
Even the music was really good. George Romanis, providing his only score for Star Trek, captures the mystery and nicely accents the action during the phaser fight.
Top notch episode, one of my favorites, but one I rarely get back to. I remember really enjoying this one when it originally aired and I'm pleased to see it has aged well. An underrated gem.
No doubt, I'm in a minority here.
I'm glad this thread exists, reminding me there are other episodes to revisit than "Best of Both Worlds" and "Yesterday's Enterprise."
Even the music was really good. George Romanis, providing his only score for Star Trek, captures the mystery and nicely accents the action during the phaser fight.
Top notch episode, one of my favorites, but one I rarely get back to. I remember really enjoying this one when it originally aired and I'm pleased to see it has aged well. An underrated gem.
No doubt, I'm in a minority here.
I'm glad this thread exists, reminding me there are other episodes to revisit than "Best of Both Worlds" and "Yesterday's Enterprise."
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I love the scene where Admr. Jameson regains his ability to walk. There was something poignant about seeing a cripple walk to the conn station.I just watched "Too Short A Season," and I totally forgot how much I loved this episode. I know it focuses more on the guest star than any of the main characters, and the old-age make up on Clayton Rohner is iffy at best, but it's still a very well written and (for the most part) acted episode - Rohner's "old man" acting is a little strained. The story is a good one and, even though it is talky, it has energy and is well paced. I mean, it really does crackle with energy. It is a direction I had hoped the series was going in: exciting, mature and thought provoking adventure. Taking the best of what made Star Trek fun and updating it into "modern" sensibilities. The show was really hitting a good stride. It helps that Wesley is nowhere in sight and that the guest characters had strong motivations. Not surprising to see D.C. Fontana's name in the teleplay credits.
Even the music was really good. George Romanis, providing his only score for Star Trek, captures the mystery and nicely accents the action during the phaser fight.
Top notch episode, one of my favorites, but one I rarely get back to. I remember really enjoying this one when it originally aired and I'm pleased to see it has aged well. An underrated gem.
No doubt, I'm in a minority here.
I'm glad this thread exists, reminding me there are other episodes to revisit than "Best of Both Worlds" and "Yesterday's Enterprise."
I realize that I am in the minority right here, but I actually prefer the first 2 seasons (and Dr Pulaski) to pretty much anything that came after it. The sense of adventure; the weirdness, the wide open space, the *lack* of a formula, the closeness of TOS as an inspiration before the formula set in.... all in all they are about the only seasons of TNG that I would purposefully set out to rewatch. I was one of the few that hoped for a huge shake up at the end of Season 3; for new cast members, positions and enemies.... I honestly would not have minded Picard sacrificing himself to the Borg or remaining an adversary. Riker/Shelby was fun. Pulaski was fun. Character conflict in general is fun....
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