Vulcans
- Thread starter xortex
- Start date
It still doesn't mean that he didn't have them. In several episodes he made others do what he wanted without touching them. Once again, here's a guy who can evade a mind sifter and lie to a Federation computer and get away with it. He said Vulcans are incapable of lying. How could that be true especially since he lyed outright in one episode 'The Mark of Gideon'? I realize that that is not proof as anything is possible but really how could he be trusted looking so much like a Romulan especially after 'Balance of Terror'.
Yeah, it does. At least till we see an episode or movie where he goes all Prof. X.
Thats why I used terms like "almost" and "on occasion". Meaning, while there are exceptions, most of the time its touch telepathy.
What do evading the mind sifter and fooling a computer have to do with telepathy? All that means is he has a very disciplined mind.
He was lying when he said Vulcans didn't lie. It was kind of the point.
What does looking like a Romulan have to do with telepathy? Of course one of the lessons of BOT is "bigotry is bad, dont judge by appearences", so not trusting Spock or Vulcans would undermine that. Should Vulcans not trust humans because they look like TOS Klingons?
Thats why I used terms like "almost" and "on occasion". Meaning, while there are exceptions, most of the time its touch telepathy.
What do evading the mind sifter and fooling a computer have to do with telepathy? All that means is he has a very disciplined mind.
He was lying when he said Vulcans didn't lie. It was kind of the point.
What does looking like a Romulan have to do with telepathy? Of course one of the lessons of BOT is "bigotry is bad, dont judge by appearences", so not trusting Spock or Vulcans would undermine that. Should Vulcans not trust humans because they look like TOS Klingons?
He's only half Vulcan and yet so powerful. Is it possible the vulcans manipulated the Federation into fighting the Romulan war? They might even not be in control of their own powers themselves, even Spock. It may be subconscious. That might be the real battle that he is struggling with. It's clear how the Vulcans think of Humans when T'Pau says 'Are thee Vulcan, or art thee Human?' with an almost racist undertone. Certainly a superior race could keep the fact that they are superior a secret and hidden. That would be their greatest asset and strength. A telepathic race would be very powerful indeed. They may also be the reason why the Federation is being attacked by the Klingons.
Because its a TV show and the Vulcans and the Federation aren't real. All that we know and what the writers want us to know is what they put on the screen. The Vulcan have not been written as illusion casting superpsi puppet masters who control the Federation.
...Which is exactly how they would look like if they were the illusion casting superpsi puppet masters who control the Federation! 
Romulans could be a race in the sense that anybody who had the facial ridges was a Romulan by biological designation. Or Romulans could be a political party, with most of the members coming from the ridge-faced race for reason X.
Perhaps the race in the majority in the Romulan political party was inherently less capable of telepathy and more violent, and thus flocked together to oppose Surak - and when Surak's side won the big war, Romulans and (in a moment of racist excess) anybody who looked like Romulans had to leave.
Or perhaps the ridgeheads just happened to live in those regions of Vulcan that were on the losing side in the war for the usual reasons unrelated to their political views or biological nature - tactically disadvantageous starting position for offense or defense, poor in raw materials, hemmed in by enemy territory, etc.
To be sure, we don't know if Surak's winners evicted the Romulans or if they decided to leave on their own. We only have vague hints that the departure took place around the time of the last big war, with Romulans as one major combatant group "marching under the raptor's wings" while others supposedly marched against them under other banners. Surak apparently died before the war in his name was concluded; his disciples might have proceeded with things Surak would never have wanted (indeed, the final war may have been one of those, although no doubt Surak could have logically argued that the best way to pacifism is the nuking of the opposition, and those at the trigger could well have listened, even if with half a pointy ear).
Or perhaps the Romulans had already left before they were (self-?)evicted. That is, perhaps being Romulan was defined by being an interplanetary or interstellar colonist of Vulcan - and these "spacers" lost their original motherworld to the Surakists but continued life in deep space. Indeed, it's possible that there were Romulans on Vulcan even after Romulans had settled Romulus and Remus, and the schism only developed when Romulus and Remus began to gain in influence within the Vulcan Star Empire.
It's good to realize that in this respect, speculation is basically all we have. Onscreen material doesn't really help us nail down what happened those two millennia before the show, and why.
The issue of Vulcan telepathy is a bit better defined - but strangely contradictory. Vulcan telepathy spans interstellar distances, yet individual Vulcans appear to be touch telepaths. Is the appearance due to biological limitations, or do Vulcans hold back telepathy just like they hold back emotion? The latter interpretation gets lots of indirect support. Telepathy for Vulcans is sex, and they have strong taboos about sex. Vulcans almost gave up telepathy at one point, as per ENT "Fusion", considering mind melds too dirty to be done even in private. Who knows what they are still holding back, not being the most easygoing folks even in the TNG era...
Romulans might be skilled telepaths all, too - but abstaining for equally perverse reasons of theirs. Certainly they appreciate interstellar telepathy, as per the ENT storyline where they exploit the Aenar. If their biology allowed them to use this skill by themselves, this path would probably have been taken in the storyline. So either Romulans have poorer interstellar telepathy skills than Vulcans, or then both have the same skills but they are not under conscious control and are only capable of these vague "Alderaan is gone!" type "messages".
Certainly the issue is far less clear-cut than mere sticking to classic TOS claims or Memory Alpha articles would suggest.
Timo Saloniemi
For all we know, they were different races to begin with. Perhaps Romulans were driven out of Vulcan on racist grounds? This could have various nuances.
Romulans could be a race in the sense that anybody who had the facial ridges was a Romulan by biological designation. Or Romulans could be a political party, with most of the members coming from the ridge-faced race for reason X.
Perhaps the race in the majority in the Romulan political party was inherently less capable of telepathy and more violent, and thus flocked together to oppose Surak - and when Surak's side won the big war, Romulans and (in a moment of racist excess) anybody who looked like Romulans had to leave.
Or perhaps the ridgeheads just happened to live in those regions of Vulcan that were on the losing side in the war for the usual reasons unrelated to their political views or biological nature - tactically disadvantageous starting position for offense or defense, poor in raw materials, hemmed in by enemy territory, etc.
To be sure, we don't know if Surak's winners evicted the Romulans or if they decided to leave on their own. We only have vague hints that the departure took place around the time of the last big war, with Romulans as one major combatant group "marching under the raptor's wings" while others supposedly marched against them under other banners. Surak apparently died before the war in his name was concluded; his disciples might have proceeded with things Surak would never have wanted (indeed, the final war may have been one of those, although no doubt Surak could have logically argued that the best way to pacifism is the nuking of the opposition, and those at the trigger could well have listened, even if with half a pointy ear).
Or perhaps the Romulans had already left before they were (self-?)evicted. That is, perhaps being Romulan was defined by being an interplanetary or interstellar colonist of Vulcan - and these "spacers" lost their original motherworld to the Surakists but continued life in deep space. Indeed, it's possible that there were Romulans on Vulcan even after Romulans had settled Romulus and Remus, and the schism only developed when Romulus and Remus began to gain in influence within the Vulcan Star Empire.
It's good to realize that in this respect, speculation is basically all we have. Onscreen material doesn't really help us nail down what happened those two millennia before the show, and why.
The issue of Vulcan telepathy is a bit better defined - but strangely contradictory. Vulcan telepathy spans interstellar distances, yet individual Vulcans appear to be touch telepaths. Is the appearance due to biological limitations, or do Vulcans hold back telepathy just like they hold back emotion? The latter interpretation gets lots of indirect support. Telepathy for Vulcans is sex, and they have strong taboos about sex. Vulcans almost gave up telepathy at one point, as per ENT "Fusion", considering mind melds too dirty to be done even in private. Who knows what they are still holding back, not being the most easygoing folks even in the TNG era...
Romulans might be skilled telepaths all, too - but abstaining for equally perverse reasons of theirs. Certainly they appreciate interstellar telepathy, as per the ENT storyline where they exploit the Aenar. If their biology allowed them to use this skill by themselves, this path would probably have been taken in the storyline. So either Romulans have poorer interstellar telepathy skills than Vulcans, or then both have the same skills but they are not under conscious control and are only capable of these vague "Alderaan is gone!" type "messages".
Certainly the issue is far less clear-cut than mere sticking to classic TOS claims or Memory Alpha articles would suggest.
Timo Saloniemi
Miranda Jones trained with Vulcans and was able to sense thoughts without touching. Whether this is due to physiological differences is not clear. I preferred the way she was written compared to Troi or the Betazoids. It isn't clear why Spock could sense Vulcan deaths or V'Ger's presence across the span of light years. Spock also uses telepathy as a form of mind control without touching.
We do know that Vulcan telepathy is not a universal racial trait and levels of skill do vary. I always viewed Spock as being particularly adept compared to the average Vulcan.
We do know that Vulcan telepathy is not a universal racial trait and levels of skill do vary. I always viewed Spock as being particularly adept compared to the average Vulcan.
Presumably a variation on the mind control used by Spock - hallucinations rather than illusions. Maybe Sarek's bloodline has particularly strong telepaths.
And then there's that Vulcanlike race seen on TNG - Who Watches the Watchers. It's funny how they were referred to as being very similar to Vulcans, and yet looked identical to Romulans. For all we know, they could be related to the earliest Romulans after they left Vulcan, or perhaps have ties to a interstellar Pre-Vulcan race.
Followed by scrambling their brains.
Similar threads
