Vulcans are from Vulcan

[THE_FETT]

So Vulcans are from Vulcan, and Romulans are from Romulus; Andorians are from Andoria; you got your Bajorans from Bajor and your Cardassians from Cardassia, and your Klingons from .... Kronos? Seriously, wtf? Who's responsible for this? How did this happen?

 

[Orac]

The Klingon homeworld was called Kling in the TNG episode Heart of Glory. Someone must have thought it sounded silly because by the season three episode Sins of the father Picard instead calls it the Homeworld of the Klingon Imperial Empire. It wasn't named Kronos until Star Trek 6, probbly for the same reason ie: Kling sounds silly.

 

[Frodo Lives]

Also, why is it necessary for a species' homeworld to correspond to a species' name? Afterall, humans are from Earth.

 

[Starbreaker]

I call myself Terran, personally.

 

[Frodo Lives]

But in Star Trek, people from Earth are called humans, for the most part anyway. You can go live in the Mirror Universe if it makes ya happy.

 

[Orac]

I prefer homo sapiens myself.

A possible reason why most aliens in Star Trek have a similar name to their planets is that the dominant species on each of these planets speaks a single language rather than being a conglomeration of different cultures like Earth.

 

[Frodo Lives]

I prefer to believe it's just that humans are too lazy to remember the correct names of alien planets and renamed 'em.

 

[Timo]

An even likelier reason is that only very few species actually have the military-political clout to influence how the Feds call them.

Vulcans no doubt have a name for themselves and another for their planet, and perhaps a third one for their society. But the Fed Universal Translators fail to acknowledge that, and substitute a human word for each instead.

It's no different from how we call a certain people "Japanese" from the island nation of "Japan", speaking the "Japanese" language. Or refer to a country named "China" where the "Chinese" live and speak "Chinese". Only when such nations posture militarily on the world stage do we stand the chance of learning about things like Nippon or the Han.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JoeZhang]

An even likelier reason is that only very few species actually have the military-political clout to influence how the Feds call them.

Vulcans no doubt have a name for themselves and another for their planet, and perhaps a third one for their society. But the Fed Universal Translators fail to acknowledge that, and substitute a human word for each instead.

It's no different from how we call a certain people "Japanese" from the island nation of "Japan", speaking the "Japanese" language. Or refer to a country named "China" where the "Chinese" live and speak "Chinese". Only when such nations posture militarily on the world stage do we stand the chance of learning about things like Nippon or the Han.

Timo Saloniemi

That's a good point, what we see on Trek is generally the translation into federation standard (as per little green men).

 

[THE_FETT]

The Klingon homeworld was called Kling in the TNG episode Heart of Glory. Someone must have thought it sounded silly because by the season three episode Sins of the father Picard instead calls it the Homeworld of the Klingon Imperial Empire. It wasn't named Kronos until Star Trek 6, probbly for the same reason ie: Kling sounds silly.

Ah, so someone did get it right at the first. I don't know, I think Kling sounds pretty okay.

Also, why is it necessary for a species' homeworld to correspond to a species' name? Afterall, humans are from Earth.

To us, sure. But to people from other worlds we'd be called "Earthlings" or whatever. Terrans from Terra, in Trek, I assume is the word. Because everyone is refered to by the place they come from.

An even likelier reason is that only very few species actually have the military-political clout to influence how the Feds call them.

But isn't it just basic language that has us calling people by the name of the place of their origin?

Vulcans no doubt have a name for themselves and another for their planet, and perhaps a third one for their society. But the Fed Universal Translators fail to acknowledge that, and substitute a human word for each instead. It's no different from how we call a certain people "Japanese" from the island nation of "Japan", speaking the "Japanese" language. Or refer to a country named "China" where the "Chinese" live and speak "Chinese". Only when such nations posture militarily on the world stage do we stand the chance of learning about things like Nippon or the Han.

Well, in ENT there was no UT and the Vulcans were still called Vulcans. Because they were from Vulcan. If you meet someone from a place, you refer to him as a "small part" of that place; Italians from Italy, French from France, English from England, etc.

They should either be Klingons from Kling, or Kronosians (Kronons?) from Kronos.

But what I was actually wondering was what happened in the real world to give them a home planet which isn't based on the name they have. Apparently, Kling sounded silly?

 

[Triskelion]

And also they could be named for their specific planet, like Vulcan or Earth, or for their sun, like Talosians (from Talos IV) or any species from a planet with a number after it. So an alternative name for Earthlings could be "Solarians" since we are from Sol III. (Which is cooler than Earthlings I think).

If the Gorn name for our sun was "Floogy", then in Gorn language we would be "Floogians" or something. But since it's all interpreted into Fed Standard, there it is.

 

[captcalhoun]

well, what about the Dutch? they don't come from 'Dutchland'. and you don't call people from Holland Hollanders or people from the Netherlands Netherlanders. They're Dutch.

How are Klingons from Qon'os any different?

 

[Forbin]

well, what about the Dutch? they don't come from 'Dutchland'. and you don't call people from Holland Hollanders or people from the Netherlands Netherlanders. They're Dutch.

That made me look it up, and it's dang interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland#The_name_.22Holland.22

 

[Triskelion]

well, what about the Dutch? they don't come from 'Dutchland'. and you don't call people from Holland Hollanders or people from the Netherlands Netherlanders. They're Dutch.

How are Klingons from Qon'os any different?

Captcalhoun has a criticism I've always shared. See, here I think we are witnessing a key transformation of how we view our cultural entertainment.

Clearly peoples of this planet have diverse cultures; which may be stereotyped through ignorance or cognitive energy-saving survival, but when viewing themselves (ourselves), we find deeper gradations of concepts and language.

In the 60's it was enough to conceive of a sci-fi show through the lens of a single majority culture; it was an introductory concept, after all. Since then, times have changed significantly (perhaps owing partially to Trek), and we audiences just aren't satisfied with that level of simplicity anymore - the same way we no longer need introductory story captions or pictures of moving clocks to indicate the passage of time in movies.

Indeed, if the universe of Trek is to be reimagined, perhaps now is the time to allow for depth and variety within other cultures, especially the familiar ones. Of course, if the stories are to be a metaphor for our own humanity, then sometimes only a shallow understanding of alien cultures will suffice.

And also in the future it's implied that Starfleet has been homogenized by, frankly, the best of US American values (and not the underbelly, we save that for the bad guys). Not to be political here; but the concept is one of individual rights and social diversity based upon ideologies and not value-laden organic culture. (Or so we think).

It also assumes that globalization and cultural homogenization is requisite in any advanced society, which is debatable, but at least serves as a goal for our troubled intraplanetary relations. It asks us to hope for peace and unity.

In an hour TV show, we just have to make due with humanoids speaking English, otherwise a lot of viewers just wouldn't bother. But books are where these things can really be hashed out. As readers and publishers wish them to be more character-oriented, and not so much with the special effects.

 

[Timo]

Well, in ENT there was no UT and the Vulcans were still called Vulcans. Because they were from Vulcan.

But that's a circular argument. It was humans who decided that the pointy-ears come from a planet named Vulcan; the pointy-ears themselves would probably have a different name for that planet. It's just too much of a coincidence that a planet with lots of volcanic activity would be named Vulcan, when the word for "volcanic activity" in the native language cannot be the same as it is in Terran languages.

If you meet someone from a place, you refer to him as a "small part" of that place; Italians from Italy, French from France, English from England, etc.

A pretty good set of examples, really. Italians aren't from Italy, they are from Italia; the English-speakers have just perverted that native name for ease of pronunciation. OTOH, the English aren't from England. Just see how the British enjoyed writing "sic" onto every piece of German propaganda in WWI where the Germans correctly used their native terms "England" and "Engländer" where the British themselves desperately wished to be considered an empire called Great Britain.

And Germans obviously aren't from Germany. Since Germany today is, and yesterday was, a merging of small states, its neighbors have tended to call that merging by the name of the nearest tribe. So the English speakers may know the nation as the land of Germans, but the French speak of the nation of the Allemands, and we here in the east speak of the land of the Saxons. The Germans themselves essentially think they live in the land of the Dutch.

That's how human languages tend to work. We don't refer to the foreign lands by their real names, we refer to them by our names, and view the lands from our vantage point anyway. When I go abroad, I won't be traveling to the British city of London; I will be going to the englantilainen city of Lontoo, which for me is a different entity from London. London is where the Londoners live; Lontoo is the city I will experience.

That's how we have things like Al Qaeda or Mafia, too: they are convenient names of our creation for entities that are our creation, and as such only crude approximations for the real things that go by different names for themselves and don't match our image of them too closely in any practical respect, either.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

Actually, Vulcanians come from Vulcanis.

John - old enough to remember

 

[Nardpuncher]

I seem to remember a novel or two calling the Klingon homeworld Klinzhai.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, I remember that. One novel had Spock being sent back in time due to Klingons and it mentioned their homeworld as being Klinzha.

I like that they don't always name their homeworlds after the race. Starcraft did that by naming the protoss homeworld "Aiur".

 

[captcalhoun]

I seem to remember a novel or two calling the Klingon homeworld Klinzhai.

i beleive that was John Ford's The Final Reflection that started that, which other authors followed up on...

 

[Nerys Myk]

But that's a circular argument. It was humans who decided that the pointy-ears come from a planet named Vulcan; the pointy-ears themselves would probably have a different name for that planet. It's just too much of a coincidence that a planet with lots of volcanic activity would be named Vulcan, when the word for "volcanic activity" in the native language cannot be the same as it is in Terran languages.

That might have worked back in TOS when Vulcan was "conquered" or at least discovered by humans. These days its the Vulcans who discovered Earth. So it seems likely that the it was Vulcans who first introduced themselves as "Vulcans" from "Vulcan" to the humans before the first human ever set foot on Vulcan. My guess it that "Vulcan" is a corruption of the actual term the Vulcans used.

Is Vulcan a planet with a higher than normal volcanic activity? I know its a desert world.

If you meet someone from a place, you refer to him as a "small part" of that place; Italians from Italy, French from France, English from England, etc.

A pretty good set of examples, really. Italians aren't from Italy, they are from Italia; the English-speakers have just perverted that native name for ease of pronunciation. OTOH, the English aren't from England. Just see how the British enjoyed writing "sic" onto every piece of German propaganda in WWI where the Germans correctly used their native terms "England" and "Engländer" where the British themselves desperately wished to be considered an empire called Great Britain.

Of course the English are from England. They are also from Great Britain and can be be English and British just as a Scotsman and a Welshman are British. There's been a United Kingdom of Great Britain since 1707. I guess the Germans didnt get the memo.

And Germans obviously aren't from Germany. Since Germany today is, and yesterday was, a merging of small states, its neighbors have tended to call that merging by the name of the nearest tribe. So the English speakers may know the nation as the land of Germans, but the French speak of the nation of the Allemands, and we here in the east speak of the land of the Saxons. The Germans themselves essentially think they live in the land of the Dutch.

That's how human languages tend to work. We don't refer to the foreign lands by their real names, we refer to them by our names, and view the lands from our vantage point anyway. When I go abroad, I won't be traveling to the British city of London; I will be going to the englantilainen city of Lontoo, which for me is a different entity from London. London is where the Londoners live; Lontoo is the city I will experience.

Sometimes thats the case. Other times we borrow names from other people. JApan comes from the Chinese by way the Portuguese. In America we have borrowed from the Native Americans for many place names. Some our the names we used for Native American tribes are what their neighbors or enemies called them.