Actually, Janeway had no idea about the hubs until Seven told her about them. When Kathy set a course for Earth at the end of Caretaker, she had no idea about the existence of the hubs, so what Skywalker said is true.
Voyager's starting position
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Actually, Janeway had no idea about the hubs until Seven told her about them. When Kathy set a course for Earth at the end of Caretaker, she had no idea about the existence of the hubs, so what Skywalker said is true.
If you want to prove someone wrong you should provide a quote. If you want to prove some wrong who is trying to proving someone wrong you really need to provide a quote. Our word and reputation is just not good enough, because of all the syndicatated anime that's crept in over the years rotting our brains.
Just becuase Janeway didn't know a hub when she saw one, it doesn't change the fact that seven had explained what the hubs were and how they worked at some point either casually or during a briefing.
Just becuase Janeway didn't know a hub when she saw one, it doesn't change the fact that seven had explained what the hubs were and how they worked at some point either casually or during a briefing.
The Dominion is not a deterrent - it's a certainty. There is no way to steer around the Dominion, because the Dominion is at Earth (or at the one and only doorway to Earth, which is the same thing). In complete contrast, the Borg are nowhere near Earth, and Janeway can steer around them with a bit of luck.
Quite regardless of whether there are threat forces there, though, it would be idiotic to the extreme to take the wormhole route, because it's twice as long as the straight route. Yeah, it may be equally quick if the wormhole works - but that is an immense risk to take, whereas the straight route carries no such risk.
Really, the wormhole as of 2371 is of no significance to anybody in the Star Trek universe, except those people who work close to it. Some of us are just confused because there is a TV show centered on the thing, making it appear far more important than it really is for our heroes.
Interestingly, we don't know whether Seven knew the locations of the hubs. Admiral Janeway was the one who did.
Since these things are "the most significant of all the Borg tactical advantages", as Tuvok postulates, it might well be that their locations are on a need-to-know basis, and Seven never needed to know.
Timo Saloniemi
I'll use Guy's method of providing quotes, since that seems to be the way to convince people of things:
ST: First Contact said:
DS9 The Sound of Her Voice said:
TNG Bloodlines said:
Using maths (yay!) we determine that 300 billion km is 0.032 light years in 20 minutes, which at that speed (if maintainable) is around 2.2 light years per day at warp 9.
Using the formula from the TNG bible, speed = wf^(10/3)*c, warp 9 would achieve a speed of 4.1 light years per day (I've already found an instance of continuity error, and I haven't even gotten to the crux of my analysis
)So, let's assume 4.1 light years per day is the velocity at which you can attain if you maintain constant warp power (also unlikely). This may be reasonable for an Intrepid-class ship, but for the Defiant-class USS Valiant, it's not. Even if it were:
Traveling 8000 LY at warp 9 non-stop would take a Defiant-class ship nearly 2000 days, or 5.34 years. This assumes that a Federation that is "spread across 8000 light years" is a circumference, and not a diameter. If it is a diameter, now you're talking 25,000 LY (pi*D), and a travel time of 16.79 years. And that's assuming you started/ended at a point on the outer edge, and not from Earth!
Meanwhile, at warp 9, a Defiant-class ship can only travel a distance of 369 LY in a period of 90 days.
In any rate, circumnavigating the Federation in a period of three months is impossible. It's extremely unlikely that even a cursory overview of the Federation could be accomplished.
So, my original thesis that there is a continuity problem in Star Trek stands.
Every drone knew every thing.
In theory.
All Borg are the same.
Even the Queen?
The Queen is the same, or less than the Drones.
Superior makes no sense.
The Queen IS the Borg. She is the mind made up of all the drones connected together, just as you are the mind made up of all your brain cells working together.
Alas, you can only apply that on a datapoint for the Galaxy class. Different datapoints exist for other vessels, giving completely different interpretations of what warp 9 means. And there exists no datapoint establishing what it means for the Defiant class. At the very best, then, we can argue that the speed of a given warp factor is dependent on circumstances of some sort - but we lack statistics to establish whether our specific examples are near the average, or exotic outliers. The claims made in "Valiant" make absolutely no difference in this respect, and can be examined separately.
Conversely, we have statements ("Emissary") establishing DS9 to be on the edge or frontier of the UFP as seen from Earth, but also statements ("Defiant") establishing that this distance can be spanned in less than a week - by a runabout, which supposedly can't reach warp five! And we have statements regarding the outermost colonies of the UFP, such as Jouret ("Best of Both Worlds") or Ivor (ST:FC) that establish these extremities to be less than a week away from Earth in terms of hero ship travel.
None of this would be in contradiction with the idea that the UFP is spread across 8,000 ly if we assumed that all the important bits are within, say, a sphere 300 ly across. Such a sphere would already encompass the real stars mentioned in dialogue as belonging to the UFP (assuming they are in the same places in the Trek galaxy as they are in ours), and would offer a completely consistent and plausible tour for the Valiant - as long as we only consider plotlines and dialogue and ignore the fundamentally inconsistent extrapolations from quoted numbers.
Well, Locutus didn't. At least not after the Collective disavowed him, which is what would be relevant in the case of Seven of Nine as well.
Or then she is just a special purpose Drone with delusions of grandeur, and the Collective humors her because there's always a need for a joker, uh, an independent thinker who speaks her mind.
Timo Saloniemi
that tracks with the movie.
That's what the "personality" (for lack of a better word) of the queen is.
But that personality can surely be exhibited through any drone.
Not just specialized(?) drones or any drone can be specialised to function as queen?
Just like Seven or Locutus, she's created for a task.
The drone who acts as queen has been modified into a diplomacy-drone or the program that replies to the name queen (Does she?) is bound to that form, or there are many queen equal and the same?
Some say that two actresses have played the same drone as Queen, and they weren't different abductees because of moving timelines or death and replacement.
You're seriously going to try to argue that warp 9 means different things to different ships?
I'm done with this argument. I've proven my point that the error is in continuity. The simple fact that I was able to disprove a TNG example with the TNG bible shows that continuity isn't being kept.
Exactly. That's how she was able to keep coming back. When they killed her, they were only killing the body she controlled, not the mind that controlled it. All she had to do was have a nother body prepared.
Yeah, pretty much. She apparently had certain tastes about how she wants to look, but she could take over any drone she wanted to really.
While I'll agree that Locutus was created for a task (to show the Federation how futile it is to resist the Borg), what task was Seven created for?
The Queen is not a program. She is a mind created by all the drones being interconnected together.
That's fairly plausible, even though we never saw the Susanna Thompson queen get killed to allow the Krige Queen to return in Endgame.
But there have never been two queens (minds, not bodies) at the same time (with the exception of First Contact, when there was a queen who was separated off from the main Collective to go back in time, and another Queen who remained in the 24th century.)
Remember Jelico going on about engine efficiency in Chain of Command?
Just a few fractions of a percentage points either way and what your ship is calling warp 9 compared to "true" warp nine is going to be quite different if each fraction of a percentage is equal to millions of miles an hour.
Not that they can't compensate for that on the speedometer as long as they know how "inefficient' their engine is and nothing surprising happens to change the inefficiency suddenly.
I mean they pump x amount of energy into their engine and expect to propel y distance at z speed IF the engine is working at 100 percent efficiency.
It's not like they're actually constantly dividing distance by time between fixed points, even though they could, since they know where they are exactly at any point by triangulating their locus from the nearest stars.
Alter the efficiency and that completely throws off the other variables.
But that would only account for the most minute changes of an actual trip.
In the planning/charting of a journey they'd be using true warp speeds.
Just a few fractions of a percentage points either way and what your ship is calling warp 9 compared to "true" warp nine is going to be quite different if each fraction of a percentage is equal to millions of miles an hour.
Not that they can't compensate for that on the speedometer as long as they know how "inefficient' their engine is and nothing surprising happens to change the inefficiency suddenly.
I mean they pump x amount of energy into their engine and expect to propel y distance at z speed IF the engine is working at 100 percent efficiency.
It's not like they're actually constantly dividing distance by time between fixed points, even though they could, since they know where they are exactly at any point by triangulating their locus from the nearest stars.
Alter the efficiency and that completely throws off the other variables.
But that would only account for the most minute changes of an actual trip.
In the planning/charting of a journey they'd be using true warp speeds.
Just to put a quabash on some of the speculation here, here's some very important information.
I was at the first convention right after Voyager launched that Rick Berman attended. In the Q&A, someone asked him "Aren't the Borg in the Delta Quadrant?".
You could very visibly see the reaction of "OH SHIT" run across his face as he realized sending Voyager straight through Borg space was probably gonna be messy to say the very least.
You could tell it was a major embarrassment for him when he realized this.
I was at the first convention right after Voyager launched that Rick Berman attended. In the Q&A, someone asked him "Aren't the Borg in the Delta Quadrant?".
You could very visibly see the reaction of "OH SHIT" run across his face as he realized sending Voyager straight through Borg space was probably gonna be messy to say the very least.
You could tell it was a major embarrassment for him when he realized this.
In my memory Janeway is specifically talking about the Borg when she said this in Scorpion...
But rereading the text, it seems more like she was saying the the continuous mounting numerous threats were building and building.of which the Borg were just a single and new component of the complete capitulation mechanism tying to erect itself inbeteen her ears.
That they had always been in denial that they were heading towards Borg Space.
But rereading the text, it seems more like she was saying the the continuous mounting numerous threats were building and building.of which the Borg were just a single and new component of the complete capitulation mechanism tying to erect itself inbeteen her ears.
Actually it is.
Its a less of a risk to go thru the space of an enemy you have more tactical info on rather than one you know barely anything about. Janeway knew the vulnerabilities of the Borg to circumvent them and she knew the Borg wouldn't Kamikaze Voyager like the Jem Hadar would. You can fool the Borg by altering your warp signature, the Dominion don't fall for such tricks. The Borg are safer.
I can't find my cell phone. I keeps ringing but I can't find it.
Actually, there was earlier indication that Borg came from the Delta Quadrant. In TNG's "Descent", a monitor display was shown indicating that the Borg ship's transwarp conduit originated in the Delta Quadrant, and I think that's where the idea that it was the home of the Borg originally came from.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/_...en/images/c/c5/Transwarp_conduit_topology.jpg
A second set of ears will let you triangulate.
Have you ne-eee-eever watched MacGyver?
You start the phone ringing, both point to where you think it is, and walk towards that point. When you bump into each other and after you stop cuddling, you two should have found that cellphone.
If that doesn't work, add another set of ears, and then another and another, and don't stop till you've found the phone or ancient Rome would be proud.
Too many ears is gross. Have you looked at those things? All foldy cartilage.
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