Voyagers BoBW?

[Computer]

Hello all,

As most fans of any Trek know by now Best of Both Worlds was the turning point for TNG when it was able to step from the shadow of TOS and become part of the mainstream. Did the writers every see (or plan) any episode of Voyager in hopes of making it the turning point in the same way?

This does not need to include the Borg mind you.

 

[Deks]

I think the best of examples that come to mind would be 'Scorpion' parts: I & II, 'Year of Hell' parts: I & II and 'Equinox' parts: I & II.

All three could have been turned into a year long story arcs for example or marked a new turn for the show.
It's possible the writers wanted to turn things into a different directions at those points ... but the network gave restraints on that.
Voyager could have gotten all of it's tech and crossed as many LY's via different events that could have happened in story arcs ... alas, we got stand alone episodes (which was ok by me).

 

[exodus]

I think "The Gift" was Voyagers turning point.

I think by removing one character and bring in a new one allowed Voy. to change focus and give the show it's "voice" that established it as something very different from DS9 but also not totally TNG as well. From "The Gift" on the mood and attitude of the show changed, from a more cerebral show to something gear toward action/adventure.

 

[DarthTom]

exodus said:
From "The Gift" on the mood and attitude of the show changed, from a more cerebral show to something gear toward action/adventure.

Or it could be called henceforth, Star Trek Voyager versus the Borg with your occasional character development episode thrown in for good measure.

 

[exodus]

DarthTom said:

exodus said:
From "The Gift" on the mood and attitude of the show changed, from a more cerebral show to something gear toward action/adventure.

Or it could be called henceforth, Star Trek Voyager versus the Borg with your occasional character development episode thrown in for good measure.

Stop it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Gift was a satellite to Scorpion which was Just TPTB cleaning up the rubble after something insane and interesting happened, The Gift should have been called Scorpion 3 as Kes talked about "her true nature", to explore and grasp the unknown and not be tied down by... Wigs? That was also the episode where Seven decided to change her nature and give humanity a try... This was a very good episode, and if Voyager became good at exploring down time, negative space and aftermath the episode before then this would be a cornerstone for the beginning of Voyagernessishness, but it was an aberration really.

Now Living Witness (*&^ed me up.

 

[DarthTom]

exodus said:
Stop it.

Well, lets not forget Star Trek Voyager versus the Predator Aliens err the Herogen - the Predator aliens without the dreads.

Nah, that was just a "Borg Break" for Lost in Space Star Trek versus the Machine people.

Danger Will Robinson err Red Alert as only could be uttered by Kathryn Janeway.

 

[exodus]

DarthTom said:

exodus said:
Stop it.

Well, lets not forget Star Trek Voyager versus the Predator Aliens err the Herogen - the Predator aliens without the dreads.

Nah, that was just a "Borg Break" for Lost in Space Star Trek versus the Machine people.

Danger Will Robinson err Red Alert as only could be uttered by Kathryn Janeway.

You suck!

 

[DarthTom]

exodus said:
You suck!

You have no idea how well I do.

 

[exodus]

DarthTom said:

exodus said:
You suck!

You have no idea how well I do.

Dude, I knew the momment after I posted that I thought: "That's not even going to be an insult too him."

Seriously, I think Trek desperately needed a species like the Hirogen or Vidiians. It's lame after a while encountering enemy aliens who's entire MO is: "Don't bother us or we'll use semi-harsh language to fight with!!!"

 

[DarthTom]

exodus said:
Seriously, I think Trek desperately needed a species like the Hirogen or Vidiians. It's lame after a while encountering enemy aliens who's entire MO is: "Don't bother us or we'll use semi-harsh language to fight with!!!"

And seriously, I think you're right about The Gift being the change over for Voyager but for different reasons. The departure of Jennifer Lein was a welcome good-bye IMHO and the arrival of Ryan was what the show needed. Also, the main characters had developed by the point on screen chemistry that heretofore in the series hadn't existed and their acting often came off as awkard and contrived up to that point. So aside from the hyped story lines they felt more comfortable with each other on the set which played better to the audience.

 

[exodus]

DarthTom said:

exodus said:
Seriously, I think Trek desperately needed a species like the Hirogen or Vidiians. It's lame after a while encountering enemy aliens who's entire MO is: "Don't bother us or we'll use semi-harsh language to fight with!!!"

And seriously, I think you're right about The Gift being the change over for Voyager but for different reasons. The departure of Jennifer Lein was a welcome good-bye IMHO and the arrival of Ryan was what the show needed. Also, the main characters had developed by the point on screen chemistry that heretofore in the series hadn't existed and their acting often came off as awkard and contrived up to that point. So aside from the hyped story lines they felt more comfortable with each other on the set which played better to the audience.

I agree.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

That would be Scorpion, although the changes from that point weren't all good.

 

[Smiley]

"Scorpion" and "The Gift" represented a major turning point for VOY. Whether that turn was for ill or good is up to you.

 

[Akiraprise]

^ I agree. The show definitely changed after these two episodes. We got a new, very interesting character, and the departure of one of the original cast. Also this is the point where they went with completely stand alone episodes. Seasons 1-3 had some loose arcs going, with the Kazon and Seska. Beginning with season 4 that pretty much ended.

If "Scorpion" was VOY's "TBoBW" then "The Gift" was their "Family" dealing with the aftermath of "Scorpion."

 

[exodus]

Actually, the Borg & EMH have loose story arcs that run the rest of the series. If you watch all the eps. that involve the Borg, it does all add up to how they got over on them in "Endgame".

 

[Akiraprise]

True.

But after the Kazon / Seska arc they never had any stories that really moved the new arc along. Where you can point to an episode and say "Ha, this lead to this." Seasons 1-3 had some stories where you needed to follow along with the show to fully grasp what was happening. Such as Seska impregnating herself with Chakotay's DNA then being shocked when the child wasn't his. You kind of needed some back story on that if you were seeing the episode for the first time. Seasons 4-7 were pretty much all individual stories where you can sit down and not need to know what happened in a previous episode to get what was happening. Sometimes it helped, but it wasn't necessary.

Does that make any sense?

 

[exodus]

Akiraprise said:
True.

But after the Kazon / Seska arc they never had any stories that really moved the new arc along. Where you can point to an episode and say "Ha, this lead to this." Seasons 1-3 had some stories where you needed to follow along with the show to fully grasp what was happening. Such as Seska impregnating herself with Chakotay's DNA then being shocked when the child wasn't his. You kind of needed some back story on that if you were seeing the episode for the first time. Seasons 4-7 were pretty much all individual stories where you can sit down and not need to know what happened in a previous episode to get what was happening. Sometimes it helped, but it wasn't necessary.

Does that make any sense?

Do you ever?

 

[startrekwatcher]

I've always said that TNG had BoBW, DS9 had A Call to Arms and Voyager had Scorpion.

Those were all turning points for the show in many ways. Scorpion didn't quite have the turnaround I had expected but it to some degree re-energized season four with Seven. But unlike TNG season four where BoBW I&II was the launching pad for a consistently strong season, Scorpion I&II just sort of nudged the show along.

 

[kipron]

Akiraprise said:
True.

But after the Kazon / Seska arc they never had any stories that really moved the new arc along. Where you can point to an episode and say "Ha, this lead to this." Seasons 1-3 had some stories where you needed to follow along with the show to fully grasp what was happening. Such as Seska impregnating herself with Chakotay's DNA then being shocked when the child wasn't his. You kind of needed some back story on that if you were seeing the episode for the first time. Seasons 4-7 were pretty much all individual stories where you can sit down and not need to know what happened in a previous episode to get what was happening. Sometimes it helped, but it wasn't necessary.

Does that make any sense?

It makes sense, but it's also not being fair.

You couldn't have Hope and Fear without Scorpion. You couldn't have Author Author without Pathfinder. Hell, you couldn't have Endgame without Caretaker or even Night.

Despite a tendancy towards episodic plots and ad-hoc spurts of (dis)continuity, Voyager did paint the larger pictures as well.