Voyager would have been better if Harry had left instead of Kes
- Thread starter G2309
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I agree with Maneth, it would have been nice if nobody had to leave.
I like the different elements the Kes character brought to the series. For example, her sense of wonder -it's the kind of thing I love about sci fi, all the possibilities out there!
Kes embodied that feeling for me.
Her healing and compassionate qualities were a nice balance to some of the drier scientific aspects of the show. Also liked her relationship with Tuvok and the exploration of her abilities.
You know, every time someone "leaves" a show, a rock band or something similar and I see the words "mutual agreement", then I cringe because my experience tells me that it's foul play involved from people in charge.
Jeri wrote:
I've heard and seen similar descriptions of that situation too.
Maneth wrote:
I agree with that statement.
I thought foul play involved actions of violence?
I'm not sure if this is supposed to whip up hate for the Harry character or throw a pity party for Jennifer Lien.
Lien was a pretty girl with a lovely voice. Kes was unremittingly noble and everyone loved her sweet and winsome personality. But it is not at all clear what she wanted: Neelix? Tom? Uh, wait, Neelix, where did that come from? For that matter, we didn't know where she was going. Along for the ride apparently, indifferent to the other Ocampans at home or with Suspiria. The forced union between her personal perfections with a blankness to the character screams idealized character, a projection for a writer (apparently, Jeri Taylor.) This kind of character unfortunately is pretty much a waste, especially if her creator isn't around any more. So, delightful as Lien was, Kes was no loss.
Harry Kim only got a couple of episodes a year, at best. The trouble is that one of them, Timeless, was one of Voyager's best. But that alone makes losing Harry a bad idea.
Lien was a pretty girl with a lovely voice. Kes was unremittingly noble and everyone loved her sweet and winsome personality. But it is not at all clear what she wanted: Neelix? Tom? Uh, wait, Neelix, where did that come from? For that matter, we didn't know where she was going. Along for the ride apparently, indifferent to the other Ocampans at home or with Suspiria. The forced union between her personal perfections with a blankness to the character screams idealized character, a projection for a writer (apparently, Jeri Taylor.) This kind of character unfortunately is pretty much a waste, especially if her creator isn't around any more. So, delightful as Lien was, Kes was no loss.
Harry Kim only got a couple of episodes a year, at best. The trouble is that one of them, Timeless, was one of Voyager's best. But that alone makes losing Harry a bad idea.
In an ideal world, it would have been nice if nobody went. But we're not living in an ideal world are we? If anyone were to go, I wish it had been Neelix!
He was so 
annoying!
He was so annoying!
I'd have just made Harry, Kes and Neelix recurring characters and not main central characters. That way they wouldn't have to be in every episode, nor get paid as much. That way when it came time for Seven they could make her a full-time character while retaining the other two.
Retaining Harry meant that a critical mass of the original Starfleet crew was preserved. For me, that was rather important. His lack of growth and transformation in such pressing circumstances was a little odd, though.
The whole Kes thing seemed a little gimmicky to me and not well thought out. Still, it would have been good to have her on with 7 of 9; there was room for a very interesting relationship and even friendship. What would a telepath have made of Seven?
And yes, there can be two blondes on a ship.
The whole Kes thing seemed a little gimmicky to me and not well thought out. Still, it would have been good to have her on with 7 of 9; there was room for a very interesting relationship and even friendship. What would a telepath have made of Seven?
And yes, there can be two blondes on a ship.
Tom is plenty blonde but, if it's only the fairer sex you're thinking about, I would have adored to see Seven playing against Sam Wildman, or even Seven vs. Marla Gilmore for the heart of the Indian.
In deadlock whence the crew and vessel was doubled, what if the doomed Janeway's real thought process was "I've gotten rid of the two whiny blubbing children, so if I defy the odds as usual it should be plain sailing to earth from here."
In deadlock whence the crew and vessel was doubled, what if the doomed Janeway's real thought process was "I've gotten rid of the two whiny blubbing children, so if I defy the odds as usual it should be plain sailing to earth from here."
In an ideal world, it would have been nice if nobody went. But we're not living in an ideal world are we? If anyone were to go, I wish it had been Neelix!
Yeah i can't believe he lasted 7 years.
What type of job do you think acting is that you can drop someones pay grade? If their agent declines the "offer" to cut back their clients role, then you can't change an actor status on the show either. That's why actors have agents and sign legal contracts with studios.
No cast member, except possably Mulgrew is in every episode.
If Harry had left instead of Kes there would have been 4 female main characters and they'd have still been outnumbered. Is there a rule that there has to be more men than women on any starship?
That always bothered me, too. Heaven forbid you have a serious sci-fi show with a majority female cast. Hollywood wouldn't know how to handle it - they'd probably turn the thing into some puerile ratings-fest.
Voyager must have proved at least a little bit that there are some ladies who do watch and enjoy sci-fi and wouldn't mind seeing their gender represented in something more than just a few stereotypes and young vixens.
It's probably why I love Voyager so much. I was a Star Trek fan right from the cradle, and I love them all dearly, but the night VOY premired, it felt like someone had finally written a Trek just for me. It was a great feeling.
You know i liked Harry. True that the writers for Voyager weren't that good, I'm a J/Cer and they f*ucked with our heads not getting them together. There were other quirks too. There was some character development, in the beginning Harry was just a naive Ensign, by the end he was much more confident and just plain more mature.
. There were other quirks too. There was some character development, in the beginning Harry was just a naive Ensign, by the end he was much more confident and just plain more mature.No, but there may have been issue with getting rid of the only main Asian character in Trek since Sulu.
Main cast member you mean of course, plenty of Asians and everyone else in need of representation wandering around in the background.... Mmmm... Rosiland Cho. It's a kinda racism to only keep the lad around mostly because of his race, making him bullet proof because of his race, and despite all that not to far down the road we had the delectable Linda Park assuming more than just the vacant position of token asian, so how were we to know that the future was so awesome that we didn't need to tolerate Kim or Wang to life boat some pretence about racial integration?
The main actors were contractually obligated to be in every episode they obligated themselves to contractually and were paid the same no matter what they did in each of those episodes, even if they had no lines, and all you saw of them was the back of their hand in the periphery of some frame.
According to IMDB, the mainstays were all in for 170 episodes, but that might have just meant that they were billed as being in 170 because there must have been an episode or two where they didn't have room for everyone?
And weirdly, Alaya was in ten more episodes than 7 of nine, even though he only spoke in four episodes.
The main actors were contractually obligated to be in every episode they obligated themselves to contractually and were paid the same no matter what they did in each of those episodes, even if they had no lines, and all you saw of them was the back of their hand in the periphery of some frame.
According to IMDB, the mainstays were all in for 170 episodes, but that might have just meant that they were billed as being in 170 because there must have been an episode or two where they didn't have room for everyone?
And weirdly, Alaya was in ten more episodes than 7 of nine, even though he only spoke in four episodes.
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Yes, what IMDB says is untrue - B'Elanna's actress was giving birth (I believe) around the time of Living Witness and was not in that episode. So that's at least one.
Now I feel ROBBED.
No Dark Lanny?
"Speed! More speed damnit! Throw some children into the intermix chamber if you have to but I want to go FASTER!"
No Dark Lanny?
"Speed! More speed damnit! Throw some children into the intermix chamber if you have to but I want to go FASTER!"
I find it more racist to get rid of one of the few minority characters on the show in favor of a mostly White cast. Trek is shown internationally. I'm sure many folks in Asian countries that watch the show are looking to it and wanting to be represented. Producers are well aware that the audience that views Trek also looks to it for racial & gender representation. J.J. Abrams even when out of his way to get approval from the Asian community on if they felt any offense at casting a Korean as Japanese before making his movie.
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