Voyager would have been better if Harry had left instead of Kes

[SPCTRE]

On a related note, I really think they dropped the ball on Harry/Seven. Even just trying to pursue that relationship at least would have given Kim something to do

The way the writers non-developed/underused his character, they might as well have ditched him. Although I'm not sure Kes staying would have been that much of an improvement over Harry - of course we can only speculate what might have been.

Looking at VOY's writers and their track record in hindsight really makes me doubt their willingness and ability to explore and develop her character beyond a few "Kes gets a telepathic headache"-style episodes

 

[Lynx]

I actually like Harry and I wouldn't want to see him dropped. But if it's between him and Kes, then Harry had to go.

Harry was without doubt the weakest character. Sometimes he was OK as sidekick to tom but most of the time he was like a lost boyscout. The character had some potential which was never used. I have to add that Harry is a lot better in the season 1-3 Voyager books, even if he has a bad habit of ending up in sickbay badly injured in many of them. Obviously he was something of the show's "whipping boy".

But I must once again stress that I don't want to see him or anyone else of the original main character dropped.

As for it being a racist thing to drop the Asian character, then I must state that dropping a blond female character is discriminating to females in general and blondes in particular.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I suspect it would have been much the same, really.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Main cast member you mean of course, plenty of Asians and everyone else in need of representation wandering around in the background.... Mmmm... Rosiland Cho. It's a kinda racism to only keep the lad around mostly because of his race, making him bullet proof because of his race, and despite all that not to far down the road we had the delectable Linda Park assuming more than just the vacant position of token asian, so how were we to know that the future was so awesome that we didn't need to tolerate Kim or Wang to life boat some pretence about racial integration?

I find it more racist to get rid of one of the few minority characters on the show in favor of a mostly White cast. Trek is shown internationally. I'm sure many folks in Asian countries that watch the show are looking to it and wanting to be represented. Producers are well aware that the audience that views Trek also looks to it for racial & gender representation. J.J. Abrams even when out of his way to get approval from the Asian community on if they felt any offense at casting a Korean as Japanese before making his movie.

but you miss the opportunity of them realizing they had made such a blunder, that all things being even, they would ave to have replaced the disposed of Asian actor with a new Asian actor as the new cast member... An Asian Seven of Nine? the only TV actress that comes to mind from the late 90s is Kelly Hu, or I suppose a young Ming Na (These were her ER days?), but I'm shite with names and faces.

Of course that would have been patronizing, which is why they were going to replace Kim with a 6 foot tall (it seems so sometimes.)Blond woman.

In an effort NOT to seem patronizing, they were going to replace an Asian lad with a hot blonde, but the last minute change in decision meant that they were replacing a hot blonde with another hot blonde(All hot blondes are not only created equal but are completely and universally interchangable.), so it is that faction of our species which should have been recounted furiously to being patronized and pandered to so hamfistedly because of some unimportant collective outward effectations and similarities.

 

[nx1701g]

Why Harry stayed and Kes left:

A few years ago I was at a convention where Wang was speaking and someone asked him in the Q&A how his character got to stay and why Kes had to go. He told everyone there that he'd been taken into Rick Berman's office at the end of filming for Season Three and was told he was being let go because they felt his character had run its course and that they would, every so often, bring him on as a guest star. They even let him go out and film pilots.

During the summer People magazine did their sexiest men alive article and Wang was on the list. The day it was published Wang got a phone call from Berman informing him that he wouldn't be let out of his contract and they were getting rid of Lien. The rest is history.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How many pilots?

I've looked at his imdb listing from time to time but nothing ever lept out at me.

 

[Lynx]

Why Harry stayed and Kes left:

A few years ago I was at a convention where Wang was speaking and someone asked him in the Q&A how his character got to stay and why Kes had to go. He told everyone there that he'd been taken into Rick Berman's office at the end of filming for Season Three and was told he was being let go because they felt his character had run its course and that they would, every so often, bring him on as a guest star. They even let him go out and film pilots.

During the summer People magazine did their sexiest men alive article and Wang was on the list. The day it was published Wang got a phone call from Berman informing him that he wouldn't be let out of his contract and they were getting rid of Lien. The rest is history.

Thanks! That's all I wanted.

Exactly what I've heard from reliable sources too.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Usually when an actor on uncertian ground is taken into a producers back room office there is some sex act involved.

I'm told that's how Berman cast all the 8472 in Scorpion.

 

[exodus]

Main cast member you mean of course, plenty of Asians and everyone else in need of representation wandering around in the background.... Mmmm... Rosiland Cho. It's a kinda racism to only keep the lad around mostly because of his race, making him bullet proof because of his race, and despite all that not to far down the road we had the delectable Linda Park assuming more than just the vacant position of token asian, so how were we to know that the future was so awesome that we didn't need to tolerate Kim or Wang to life boat some pretence about racial integration?

I find it more racist to get rid of one of the few minority characters on the show in favor of a mostly White cast. Trek is shown internationally. I'm sure many folks in Asian countries that watch the show are looking to it and wanting to be represented. Producers are well aware that the audience that views Trek also looks to it for racial & gender representation. J.J. Abrams even when out of his way to get approval from the Asian community on if they felt any offense at casting a Korean as Japanese before making his movie.

but you miss the opportunity of them realizing they had made such a blunder, that all things being even, they would ave to have replaced the disposed of Asian actor with a new Asian actor as the new cast member... An Asian Seven of Nine? the only TV actress that comes to mind from the late 90s is Kelly Hu, or I suppose a young Ming Na (These were her ER days?), but I'm shite with names and faces.

Of course that would have been patronizing, which is why they were going to replace Kim with a 6 foot tall (it seems so sometimes.)Blond woman.

In an effort NOT to seem patronizing, they were going to replace an Asian lad with a hot blonde, but the last minute change in decision meant that they were replacing a hot blonde with another hot blonde(All hot blondes are not only created equal but are completely and universally interchangable.), so it is that faction of our species which should have been recounted furiously to being patronized and pandered to so hamfistedly because of some unimportant collective outward effectations and similarities.

Seven of Nine was originally meant to be a man.
Jeri Ryan just happens to be blonde, it doesn't mean they were looking for only blondes for the part.
If Ryan was a brunette or red head, what would the rational be then?

Frankly, I think Harry lived up to his potential by designing all the new technology on Voyager.
Keeping Harry, Be'Lanna & adding Seven made perfect sense.
Engineers are going to be the ones with the ideas & skills to create things to get them home faster.
Engineers are the ones building the shuttles, torpedoes, repairing the ship and most stuff we question.

 

[brcarthey]

According to IMDB, the mainstays were all in for 170 episodes, but that might have just meant that they were billed as being in 170 because there must have been an episode or two where they didn't have room for everyone.

Yes, what IMDB says is untrue - B'Elanna's actress was giving birth (I believe) around the time of Living Witness and was not in that episode. So that's at least one.

you're correct, sort of. she was in "the omega directive but went into labor during its shooting. she subsequently missed the next two episodes, "unforgettable" and "living witness." she also wasn't in "child's play" b/c she directed that and didn't feel comfortable acting while directing for the first time.

garrett wang was not in at least two episodes, one of which was "blood fever," due to being suspended for unprofessional conduct.

ethan phillips and bob picardo were also not in an episode or two, but i don't remember which ones.

 

[brcarthey]

I find it more racist to get rid of one of the few minority characters on the show in favor of a mostly White cast. Trek is shown internationally. I'm sure many folks in Asian countries that watch the show are looking to it and wanting to be represented. Producers are well aware that the audience that views Trek also looks to it for racial & gender representation. J.J. Abrams even when out of his way to get approval from the Asian community on if they felt any offense at casting a Korean as Japanese before making his movie.

but you miss the opportunity of them realizing they had made such a blunder, that all things being even, they would ave to have replaced the disposed of Asian actor with a new Asian actor as the new cast member... An Asian Seven of Nine? the only TV actress that comes to mind from the late 90s is Kelly Hu, or I suppose a young Ming Na (These were her ER days?), but I'm shite with names and faces.

Of course that would have been patronizing, which is why they were going to replace Kim with a 6 foot tall (it seems so sometimes.)Blond woman.

In an effort NOT to seem patronizing, they were going to replace an Asian lad with a hot blonde, but the last minute change in decision meant that they were replacing a hot blonde with another hot blonde(All hot blondes are not only created equal but are completely and universally interchangable.), so it is that faction of our species which should have been recounted furiously to being patronized and pandered to so hamfistedly because of some unimportant collective outward effectations and similarities.

Seven of Nine was originally meant to be a man.
Jeri Ryan just happens to be blonde, it doesn't mean they were looking for only blondes for the part.
If Ryan was a brunette or red head, what would the rational be then?

Frankly, I think Harry lived up to his potential by designing all the new technology on Voyager.
Keeping Harry, Be'Lanna & adding Seven made perfect sense.
Engineers are going to be the ones with the ideas & skills to create things to get them home faster.
Engineers are the ones building the shuttles, torpedoes, repairing the ship and most stuff we question.

very true. as b'elanna once said, "It may be the warriors who get the glory, but it's the engineers who build societies. Don't forget that."

 

[Guy Gardener]

garrett wang was not in at least two episodes, one of which was "blood fever," due to being suspended for unprofessional conduct.

Golly! Tell me more.

 

[exodus]

According to IMDB, the mainstays were all in for 170 episodes, but that might have just meant that they were billed as being in 170 because there must have been an episode or two where they didn't have room for everyone.

Yes, what IMDB says is untrue - B'Elanna's actress was giving birth (I believe) around the time of Living Witness and was not in that episode. So that's at least one.

you're correct, sort of. she was in "the omega directive but went into labor during its shooting. she subsequently missed the next two episodes, "unforgettable" and "living witness." she also wasn't in "child's play" b/c she directed that and didn't feel comfortable acting while directing for the first time.

garrett wang was not in at least two episodes, one of which was "blood fever," due to being suspended for unprofessional conduct.

ethan phillips and bob picardo were also not in an episode or two, but i don't remember which ones.

I know Picardo is absent in "The Gift".

 

[brcarthey]

garrett wang was not in at least two episodes, one of which was "blood fever," due to being suspended for unprofessional conduct.

Golly! Tell me more.

"fair trade" was the other episode he did not appear in.

according to many sources, he was late to the set many, many times using the ol' traffic excuse, even though no one else had a problem getting to paramount on time. it's also been said that he would bring women on the set even though he wasn't really supposed to (though that's probably a matter for conjecture).

that's all there really is to it. that's probably why he the first to be considered to be on the chopping block instead of jennifer lien.

 

[exodus]

garrett wang was not in at least two episodes, one of which was "blood fever," due to being suspended for unprofessional conduct.

Golly! Tell me more.

"fair trade" was the other episode he did not appear in.

according to many sources, he was late to the set many, many times using the ol' traffic excuse, even though no one else had a problem getting to paramount on time. it's also been said that he would bring women on the set even though he wasn't really supposed to (though that's probably a matter for conjecture).

that's all there really is to it. that's probably why he the first to be considered to be on the chopping block instead of jennifer lien.

Not sure about the women but Wang himself has admitted to his blunders in the past. However, while it's wrong to be late for any job, Wang & Lien were new young faces in Hollywood. Getting paid decently along with lure of the fast paced party crowd of L.A. is a strong temptation for any young person. Even some older folks like Tom Sizemore can't stop being caught up in it. That's why others like Sandra Bullock, Johnny Depp or Harrison Ford move away.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So.... Does that men that Vorrik usurped Kim's part in Bloodfever? because it's really out f character to give so much script to an "extra" by Voyager's writing room even for one of the producers kids.

Bloodfever made Vorrik.

 

[exodus]

So.... Does that men that Vorrik usurped Kim's part in Bloodfever? because it's really out f character to give so much script to an "extra" by Voyager's writing room even for one of the producers kids.

Bloodfever made Vorrik.

How would Harry telepathically meld with Be'Lanna causing her bloodfever?

They've given plenty of sceen time and script to the "extras". That's what Seska, Suder, Icheb, Ballard, Niomi, the ensigns of "Good Shepherd" all were. The Voth in "Distant Origin" are given more lines and screen time that all the Voyager cast.

 

[Lynx]

So.... Does that men that Vorrik usurped Kim's part in Bloodfever? because it's really out f character to give so much script to an "extra" by Voyager's writing room even for one of the producers kids.

Bloodfever made Vorrik.

No, I don't think so.

I can't see any reason for Kim going crazy in "Blood Fever" in the same way as Vorik did. Not to mention that Kim got very little screen time in the later episodes in season 3, maybe a hint that he was on the "way out".

I guess that Vorik's role in "Blood Fever" was planned from the start and that he was supposed to be the "main recurring character" due to the actor being the son of one of the producers.

It's also worth mentioning that when the said producer left the show, the character Vorik dissapeared too.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I had one of my brain farts for sure, sue me if I wanted to see Harry and Tom fighting over B'Elanna, and it's not like Harry needed help falling in love, but Exoduses list of so called extras are mostly gueststars and special gueststars, not anyone who walked around in the background every episode (and there was at least three I've seen noted who appeared in over a hundred episodes without receiving or probably wanting any lines.) and is occasionally given lines like Hogan (possibly not so much?)or Vorrik which is what an extra is. Calling Seska an extra is a little belittling considering it seemed like she was part ofthe main cast however it's quite a surprise how few episodes she was in over all considering her importance in the first two seasons.

 

[exodus]

I had one of my brain farts for sure, sue me if I wanted to see Harry and Tom fighting over B'Elanna, and it's not like Harry needed help falling in love, but Exoduses list of so called extras are mostly gueststars and special gueststars, not anyone who walked around in the background every episode (and there was at least three I've seen noted who appeared in over a hundred episodes without receiving or probably wanting any lines.) and is occasionally given lines like Hogan (possibly not so much?)or Vorrik which is what an extra is. Calling Seska an extra is a little belittling considering it seemed like she was part ofthe main cast however it's quite a surprise how few episodes she was in over all considering her importance in the first two seasons.

How is it belittling?
Seska isn't part of the main cast.