Voyager Relaunch question
- Thread starter AuntKate
- Start date
And then they slam down some boilermakers and go about their business.
Or something.
Or something.
Boilermakers?
:: runs to wikipedia ::
:: runs to wikipedia ::
Actually we're too busy having sex to give those weightier manners much thought. Do keep us juveniles informed on what the adults decide though. We pop up for air occasionally.
Thanks for the clarification. As much as I don't like the direction Trek Lit took with Voyager I'm not much of a fan of book burnings.
It was obviously a joke. It was a cartoon for god's sake.
Anyway I for one would like to have the facts someday. In all these threads we hear PAD hated Janeway, Clark didn't know what to do with her etc.. but I would like some links and references. I think from reading it he certainly seems to hate Janeway.. as I said before the way he portrays her personality reads like a really bad parody.
The only reason I have not thrown that book in the bin (we don't burn much out here, fire danger season) is to use it as reference in these discussions. Also there's a lovely pic of 7 of 9 on the cover so I would probably tear off the cover first. Very good artists for Treklit with relaunch.
Anyway I for one would like to have the facts someday. In all these threads we hear PAD hated Janeway, Clark didn't know what to do with her etc.. but I would like some links and references. I think from reading it he certainly seems to hate Janeway.. as I said before the way he portrays her personality reads like a really bad parody.
The only reason I have not thrown that book in the bin (we don't burn much out here, fire danger season) is to use it as reference in these discussions. Also there's a lovely pic of 7 of 9 on the cover so I would probably tear off the cover first. Very good artists for Treklit with relaunch.
You know, I was kind of floored that people were taking me seriously on this (considering it started in a thread where 60% of the posts are made by drunk people at 2 AM) - until I came across the old discussions of the VOY relaunch that took place on the TrekLit forum. I knew there had been a real big haboob about this, but actually seeing some of it...
Holy biscuits, I wasn't even involved or there and yet a lot of posts in this thread are starting to make some scary sense.
What do you mean froot? Scary sense in what direction?
I'm curious to know as well, especially since I was in the Trek Lit forum when BD hit the skids...I mean shelves.
Hey, I dunno how many facts or whatever you can glean from these, but these are what I just came across today. What a complete mess.
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=63494
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=81388
There are points in which Beyer shows up personally, though I don't know if we ever get PAD's take on the situation past a few rumors (this was way post-BD after all)
It just seems like Pocket Books had no idea what to do with the character, far as I can tell. Still don't know why they picked a hostile author, even after all that. Anyway, odd reasoning considering I've read a lot of great fanfic starring Admiral Janeway kicking ass and taking names (and getting with Chuckles, but YMMV on that
)EDIT: Oh, wait, LOLOL. Here's a thread with a really classy title to add to the pile.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=81376
Thanks froot, I will peruse that later, maybe when drunk at 2am, hahaha. I'm very interested to read what Beyer says. As far as I know PAD has never posted in Treklit, but I may be wrong.
And yes, I'm sure plenty of authors could have written a good Voyager book with Janeway in it, but it's the publishers that give them the story's direction as I understand it so I assume it is the publishers that don't know "what to do with her". As many have said why not just leave her in Starfleet as an admiral and send the Voy crew off without her if she was that difficult for them. Beyer did a good job with the J/C story when she filled in the blanks, she could have done a good job with Janeway at the helm too.
And yes, I'm sure plenty of authors could have written a good Voyager book with Janeway in it, but it's the publishers that give them the story's direction as I understand it so I assume it is the publishers that don't know "what to do with her". As many have said why not just leave her in Starfleet as an admiral and send the Voy crew off without her if she was that difficult for them. Beyer did a good job with the J/C story when she filled in the blanks, she could have done a good job with Janeway at the helm too.
Scary as in why bringing up the relaunch usually ends with someone slapping the ol' "lunatic fringe militant" label on your head the second you express distaste over Janeway's OOC demise. I knew there was a fight, but, man, that was a war.
Scary as in why bringing up the relaunch usually ends with someone slapping the ol' "lunatic fringe militant" label on your head the second you express distaste over Janeway's OOC demise. I knew there was a fight, but, man, that was a war.
Even now, there are still skirmishes between the pro-and-anti-BD forces, between the pro-and-anti-Janeway forces...
It will never end.
Good. Maybe the publishers will notice that they have alienated a passionate fanbase.
Well, that's fine.
We have a compound with ample jelly reserves! We can hold out against a siege or two.
Doubtful.
Even if...especially if they bring her back. Suddenly, there'll be an epic flame war the likes of which Trek Lit readers have never seen.
Well, that's fine.
WOW.
::wipes tear::
Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our fanbase dead!
Nuke the site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure...
Just to be clear on my own thoughts on the matter-
BD - As an OTT story where the bulk of it is probably best forgotten, it's not bad. Nobody's actually explained -how- Janeway was OOC (I'd argue that is more true for some of the Enterprise crew in any case), and since we're not clear on the behind-the-scenes, I'm not going to assign blame except that -if- PAD had issues with Janeway then assigning this story to him was probably a questionable decision. But hey, it's nowhere near the worst Trek book ever (if you think it is I suggest reading more of the standalone early TNG stories), and as with Trek '09 at least it wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo. Making an issue of the fact that it says TNG on the cover is, -to me-, a bit silly
Janeway herself - Is anyone really surprised she blew off the advice of a Q? Picard's done the same thing, and it's not as though she was first on the scene in this case...if the cube was going to wake up it was going to wake up, and it's just wrong place at the wrong time for Janeway (yes, behind the scenes we all knew it would be someone we knew, but in-universe it's hardly surprising that it would be a Borg expert on the ship at the time). If you want to argue it was reckless for her to be on the ship at all, "risk is part of their business", and this would hardly be the first time Janeway behaved in a reckless manner (Equinox, YoH, Scientific Method...). I will be the first to acknowledge that Janeway was placed under stresses that AFAWK no Starfleet captain had ever faced before, and -for the most part- she handled them admirably, but let's not pretend she didn't occasionally make controversial decisions. If she'd had anyone to answer to perhaps things would have been different, or perhaps nothing would have changed.
Voyager - Lots of good episodes...and lots of bad ones. I'm inclined to think there's more bad than good overall (if my reaction to an episode is "meh" I tend to consider it bad). IMO the show was seriously hurt by the buried Maquis issues and the lack of serialization, but I'm not qualified to speak for all fans.
Like I said, people are welcome to (and clearly do) disagree, and I don't mind that. I'm happy to talk about our points of disagrement (to a point...I don't tend to do huge paragraphs of analysis nor engage in conversations where those ensue, here), but, semantic or not, when people begin presenting their opinions as fact, claiming that they speak for the majority, or get particularly emotional in their arguments (book-burning, I'll never read another book by author X, who does he think he is?) etc., it makes me -very- reluctant to engage in conversation with those people because it gives the impression my opinions will be dismissed out of hand...and if that's the case then why even bother to speak up?
I am sorry folks were seriously disappointed with BD or any other aspect of Trek, but there's forms of expressing that disappointment that I just don't find appropriate or warranted no matter how bad it was, precisely because it is just a book/TV show. Nobody's childhood was raped, nobody's pet died, etc...
Anyway, sorry for the digression, I just...I've been cast as being anti-Janeway or anti-Voyager before, and I find that unfair and rudely dismissive, so I thought some clarification of my opinions might be in order, since I think this thread has sometimes gotten a bit more heated than is necessarily comfortable for people who are actually looking to discuss things in an even-haded manner.
My god I can talk...
Just to be clear on my own thoughts on the matter-
BD - As an OTT story where the bulk of it is probably best forgotten, it's not bad. Nobody's actually explained -how- Janeway was OOC (I'd argue that is more true for some of the Enterprise crew in any case), and since we're not clear on the behind-the-scenes, I'm not going to assign blame except that -if- PAD had issues with Janeway then assigning this story to him was probably a questionable decision. But hey, it's nowhere near the worst Trek book ever (if you think it is I suggest reading more of the standalone early TNG stories), and as with Trek '09 at least it wasn't afraid to shake up the status quo. Making an issue of the fact that it says TNG on the cover is, -to me-, a bit silly
Janeway herself - Is anyone really surprised she blew off the advice of a Q? Picard's done the same thing, and it's not as though she was first on the scene in this case...if the cube was going to wake up it was going to wake up, and it's just wrong place at the wrong time for Janeway (yes, behind the scenes we all knew it would be someone we knew, but in-universe it's hardly surprising that it would be a Borg expert on the ship at the time). If you want to argue it was reckless for her to be on the ship at all, "risk is part of their business", and this would hardly be the first time Janeway behaved in a reckless manner (Equinox, YoH, Scientific Method...). I will be the first to acknowledge that Janeway was placed under stresses that AFAWK no Starfleet captain had ever faced before, and -for the most part- she handled them admirably, but let's not pretend she didn't occasionally make controversial decisions. If she'd had anyone to answer to perhaps things would have been different, or perhaps nothing would have changed.
Voyager - Lots of good episodes...and lots of bad ones. I'm inclined to think there's more bad than good overall (if my reaction to an episode is "meh" I tend to consider it bad). IMO the show was seriously hurt by the buried Maquis issues and the lack of serialization, but I'm not qualified to speak for all fans.
Like I said, people are welcome to (and clearly do) disagree, and I don't mind that. I'm happy to talk about our points of disagrement (to a point...I don't tend to do huge paragraphs of analysis nor engage in conversations where those ensue, here), but, semantic or not, when people begin presenting their opinions as fact, claiming that they speak for the majority, or get particularly emotional in their arguments (book-burning, I'll never read another book by author X, who does he think he is?) etc., it makes me -very- reluctant to engage in conversation with those people because it gives the impression my opinions will be dismissed out of hand...and if that's the case then why even bother to speak up?
I am sorry folks were seriously disappointed with BD or any other aspect of Trek, but there's forms of expressing that disappointment that I just don't find appropriate or warranted no matter how bad it was, precisely because it is just a book/TV show. Nobody's childhood was raped, nobody's pet died, etc...
Anyway, sorry for the digression, I just...I've been cast as being anti-Janeway or anti-Voyager before, and I find that unfair and rudely dismissive, so I thought some clarification of my opinions might be in order, since I think this thread has sometimes gotten a bit more heated than is necessarily comfortable for people who are actually looking to discuss things in an even-haded manner.
My god I can talk...
