Voyager Nacelles

[Tigger]

As I recall, the "Writer's Technical Manual" that Rick and Mike wrote for the writers on Voyager also notes that the nacelle movement also helps protect subspace from the deleterious effects of warp travel.

Myself, I just went with the idea that it was part of a variable-geometry warp bubble designed to optimize the bubble to the warp factor based on one of the concepts at the end of the TNG Tech Manual noted Star Fleet was considering such a thing (the concept vessel with the nacelles that traveled back and forth across a set of "wings").

 

[sojourner]

I can remember the early pre-view drawings of Voyager in TV Guide before the show came out with the warp nacelles fixed in a down position. I truly wanted to see the nacelles move according to the different speed of the ship.

But... why?

That's really the point. We know why it was really done... for the same reason that so many other nonsensical design decisions have been made through the years... "Becuz it'll be kewl!" But is there any plausible technical reason for doing so?

I can think of quite a few technical reasons for NOT doing so... not the least of which are the decreased mechanical strength of the nacelle attachment points and the increased complexity of the hardware required to go through hinged joints.

But is there any plausible reason for moving the nacelles, other than because Jeri T wanted it that way?

To change the geometry of the warpfield as the ship attains higher warp speed. Much like an F-14 or F-111 changes the angle of the wings to aid in supersonic flight. At least it would have been better than the useless "up = on, down = off" which had no plausible reason for occurring. "so the warp engines would not be in the way of the impulse engines" is about as close as anyone can get. If your weakening the structural integrity of the ship just to get something out of the way of the impulse engines maybe you should consider a better location for them in the first place.

Apologies to Rick, but it's not your fault that the exec's made you add that detail "because it looked teh kewl"

You would think that with all the technobabble that was spewed in 7 years of Voyager they could have said at least one line commenting on a fairly obvious part of the ship or at least worked it into a story considering how unique it was in design.

I would have loved an episode with a mechanical failure preventing the nacelles from rising to warp position.

 

[MaxPower]

That's really the point. We know why it was really done... for the same reason that so many other nonsensical design decisions have been made through the years... "Becuz it'll be kewl!" But is there any plausible technical reason for doing so?

There is no reason for the nacelles to move. It seems to slow the ship to get the engines up to the proper place. Also when you have moving parts things will break that is just a fact.

If you were doing it because it was cool then make it as cool as you can. I would love to see the nacelles in the down position for low speeds and have them move up for faster speeds. You could throw in some BS about warp bubbles, saving sub space or something so there is a weak reason. I personally have never liked how Voyager looked with the engines in the up position. I would of love to see the ship with the engines in a permanent down position so it looks different then all of the other hero (expect Defiant) ships in Star Trek.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I would have loved an episode with a mechanical failure preventing the nacelles from rising to warp position.

Oh, that would've been great...

JANEWAY: "Mr. Paris, prepare to pursue hostile vessel. Harry, open hailing frequencies, set to 'PREACH MODE'."

(Simulteneously)
KIM/PARIS: "AYE, AYE, CAPTAIN!"

(Exterior shot - U.S.S. Voyager)

"_ C L U N K _"

"whine-whine-whine-whine... "

JANEWAY: "Damn, I thought that was embarassing with the Excelsior!"

 

[JB2005]

^ Cut to B'Elanna in Engineering desperately turning a wheel, trying to manual move the nacelles...

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

^Needs more technobabble.

"Captain, I'm attempting to manipulate the pylon rotation axial control wheel to the best of my abilities, however there's a build-up of iron oxide preventing me from applying rotational mechanical pressure!"

"Re-modulate the deflector!"

 

[MaxPower]

And then the Delta Flyer is used to pull the nacelles into postion, but only get stuck coming out of the too narrow shuttle bay.

 

[JB2005]

^Don't worry the Equinox Crew, Borg Baby and Lt Baxter will take care of it

 

[MaxPower]

Don't worry the Equinox Crew, Borg Baby and Lt Baxter will take care of it

 

[Gepard]

^Needs more technobabble.

"Captain, I'm attempting to manipulate the pylon rotation axial control wheel to the best of my abilities, however there's a build-up of iron oxide preventing me from applying rotational mechanical pressure!"

"Re-modulate the deflector!"

I've been rewtaching Voyager lately; I totally heard those lines in my head in their voices.

 

[Brent]

Maybe it helps it land or something since the ship can land

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Maybe it helps it land or something since the ship can land

In which case why not just keep them up the whole time they're in space? they've only landed what, a couple of times?

 

[Timo]

Indeed. Even in tight spots that might require a quick warp getaway, Janeway keeps the nacelles down at impulse. Which sort of suggests that nacelles down is the ideal way to rapidly launch to warp.

Which in turn would support the theory that it's not the position that's important, it's the movement. Perhaps you get better acceleration when you flap the nacelles than when you keep them up all the time.

Sometimes it's claimed that this would be the first or perhaps only class of Starfleet starship that can land. However, this was never suggested let alone confirmed on screen. All we saw was that no other starship landed and survived to tell about it. It is theoretically possible that landing is difficult to do and only done by Intrepid class or similar vessels, and that some unique technological solutions are required, among these the oddly swinging nacelles. But as said, this doesn't explain the nacelle movement while in empty space...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Indeed. Even in tight spots that might require a quick warp getaway, Janeway keeps the nacelles down at impulse. Which sort of suggests that nacelles down is the ideal way to rapidly launch to warp.

Which in turn would support the theory that it's not the position that's important, it's the movement. Perhaps you get better acceleration when you flap the nacelles than when you keep them up all the time.

Sometimes it's claimed that this would be the first or perhaps only class of Starfleet starship that can land. However, this was never suggested let alone confirmed on screen. All we saw was that no other starship landed and survived to tell about it. It is theoretically possible that landing is difficult to do and only done by Intrepid class or similar vessels, and that some unique technological solutions are required, among these the oddly swinging nacelles. But as said, this doesn't explain the nacelle movement while in empty space...

Timo Saloniemi

I dunno... the Defiant looked pretty well-suited to landing... even had some details that looks sorta like "landing pads" in a couple of spots.

But yeah, no other ship was shown landing... and the "landing mode" for the Voyager was... well... pretty ludicrous when you really looked at it, I think. The original design of the Voyager (with the underslung "runabout-ish" pylons and nacelles) was far more practical as a landable craft.

 

[Unicron]

The Klingons had landable ships with the BOP design, so I'd like to think perhaps there are more capital ships with that capacity than we've seen. Naturally the transporter is a big convenience.

 

[Timo]

Treknology as such should allow for effortless planetary landing of any starship. Their sublight engines obviously create thrust in excess of one gee; their structures can absorb this stress easily. The ships don't sag under their own weight, then, and should be able to hover over a planetary surface, or land on it in any arbitrary orientation (say, balancing on the tip of a nacelle), without the crew or the cargo being inconvenienced since they enjoy artificial gravity anyway.

Perhaps the limiting factor is atmospheric maneuvering, which posed problems for Voyager in certain situations, too. Impulse engines might work poorly within atmospheres, as suggested by DS9 "The Siege" where diving into the atmosphere supposedly negates the advantage of the impulse-capable interceptors over Kira's sub-impulse raider. Or perhaps the operation of a starship within an atmosphere causes too much havoc in the form of sonic booms, gentler but still massive displacement of air or whatnot. Say, perhaps some system aboard the ship (impulse engines?) creates forces outside the ship that are not harmful in the vacuum of space, but tend to cause major and disturbing air movement when the ship is dipped in an atmosphere.

It's difficult to see a connection between Voyager's atmospheric difficulties and her flapping nacelles, though. But I think it should raise a few eyebrows that the only two largish starship types seen to be capable of landing, Intrepid and Klingon BoP, both have strange, moving wings...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Verteron]

Timo, I love your 'squeeze' theory. I'm just imagining a warp bubble forming and beginning to increase in flux as the nacelles charge... and then being squeezed by the rising nacelles, perhaps spreading it further forwards and backwards from the hull, with a smaller 'subspace gradient' than could otherwise be produced by a standard nacelle system, thus 'cushioning' the effects of the warp transition on normal space, sidestepping the issue of damage we saw in TNG.

TNG never explained what the damage actually was, it may well have been something to do with creating a subspace field or transitioning to warp rather than actually sustaining warp once engaged, after all, the 'D' coasted through the subspace anomaly just fine with an active subspace field to sustain warp (they were, after all, still at FTL) but just apparently not creating a propulsive effect, and did no further damage until they had to 're-engage' the engines.

 

[Pippin209]

Hey guys ive loved reading your views on this subject. so much i had to join to comment with you all.

So im not exactly very knowledgeable on many trek teck aspects however i would say you are all mainly correct.
The nacelles will move to help create a more streamlined slip space bubble as well as use compression field theory to lower energy requirements allowing the 9.75 warp factor. could bewhy the Promethious has 4 nacelles as well as to allow each parts individual warp capability.
However i would say they it wont have anything to do with in atmosphere as they only use the thrusters in high output mode for thrust. (every time they go in atmosphere they have to configure the thrusters)

 

[sojourner]

5 year old thread. Most of the original commentators are no longer around.

 

[Unicron]

Agreed. Normally I'm pretty lenient on the occasional necro'ed thread, since it doesn't happen too often and it's normally by a new poster. Pippin209, no harm done and welcome to the board. But for future reference, please check the dates on older threads; it's better to start a new one than bump one this old. Thanks.

Given the age, I'm just going to clang this one and put it back to rest.