At least with other pairings, there's dialogue to back up the subtext.
Voy Slash Fic That Disturbs and Fandom
- Thread starter Adm_Hawthorne
- Start date
A question: I thought "slash" referred only to same-sex pairings - or can it be used for any non-canonical pairing?
If only!Hell no, I've seen pairings of characters who have hardly ever even been in a scene together (and where the only basis for the pairing was obviously that the author finds both those guys hot). Or even those who have NEVER shared a scene (like crossover pairings)...
Like the Laura Roslyn/Kathryn Janeway video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H97shrO_8A
Harry Kim/Janeway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_-GfQ7J4Xg
Secret admirer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBRP4TaREKY&feature=related
slide show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltHEUHVLM74&feature=related
I think it comes down to the same topic we discussed a few months ago. Janeway seduces many of her crew to her way of thinking, hence the many "fandoms" out there..
Exactly. Visual-only doesn't count for jack. You can make a pretty video out of - I do like the Roslyn/Janeway one - but it still won't make sense.
I don't know, but after Adm Hawthorne mentioned "My Immortal," I wanted to read a few paragraphs of a Voyager fanfic in the style of Enoby's prose. Kim as a emo goth crying sexily, Janeway with long raven locks and a My Chemical Romance patch on her uniform...I can kind of see it, but not well enough to write it.
I don't generally read fanfic, but I stumbled across "My Immortal," and was suitably impressed/horrified.
I don't generally read fanfic, but I stumbled across "My Immortal," and was suitably impressed/horrified.
What is "mainstream fanfic"?
I don't know why you're surprised by anything... There's far too many weird and nonsensical pairings in fanfiction. If any two characters have interacted on screen even for a single scene, someone will manage to read or imagine some sexual subtext there; if the characters have never even met, nevermind, someone will pair them up anyway. If you are shocked by someone seeing Janeway/Kim as sexual... well, what would you say about Heroes fandom: one of the most popular pairings is "Petrillincest" - slash pairing of brothers Nathan and Peter Petrelli (a bunch of people have commented how they like to hug and touch a lot - I mean obviously, showing affection for another guy just because he's your brother, that's like, so gay!
), and people are pairing up Claire with pretty much everyone, incest or not - including her biological father, and her adopted father! 
Now one can see where that comes from with Peter - they had an ambiguous dynamic in season 1 before it was revealed he was her uncle, and the actors used to date in real life; but I don't know where they get that with Nathan, and Claire/Noah? 
That was never portrayed as anything but a touching father/daughter relationship. And I've recently learned that in the Buffy TVS fandom, it was quite popular to write femslash about Buffy and her mom! 
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This is why I read the official Star Trek novels. They haven't done slash since the 80's
Of course, I'm not really talking about fanfiction except to bring up the fact that I never saw the chemistry between J/K on screen. If you don't like fanfiction, that's cool, but it doesn't really address my question, which is where in the series could you interrpret subtext for these two.
I'd hate for this to turn into "fanfic bad".
I'd hate for this to turn into "fanfic bad".
Nah, there is a lot of fanfiction that's as good or better than some of the official tie-in literature.
But there's also a lot of crap and a lot of silliness that makes no sense. Which exactly addresses your question - I don't see any subtext in J/K on screen, and obviously most other people don't see it either, but why would that stop a fanfic writer? There are lot of nonsensical pairings out there where I can't see any subtext even if I try, so I don't know why you're so surprised and disturbed with this one. That's the way it is, people will pair up anyone with anyone (especially if the characters happen to be more or less attractive).
I think you're missing my point. 
I don't care if you (plural) understand why I find a particular pairing or not. My question was where might we find evidence of such a pairing on screen. It is not why would someone create that pairing in fanfiction.
Please stop saying that I'm surprised and disturbed. It's missing the point of my post.
My apologies if I was not clear enough.
I don't care if you (plural) understand why I find a particular pairing or not. My question was where might we find evidence of such a pairing on screen. It is not why would someone create that pairing in fanfiction.
Please stop saying that I'm surprised and disturbed. It's missing the point of my post.
My apologies if I was not clear enough.
I agree, pairings without evidence just demonstrate lack of understanding on the part of the writer. At least for me, it either needs to be onscreen and stated openly, or SO blatant even though not directly stated, that it's hard to argue with. Which is why I DO think there's something to G/B...even Andrew Robinson himself threw fuel on that fire. Bashir's receptivity to such advances is another issue, but the argument can at least be made. As for any other slash pairings...I don't really see evidence. (Now, if I'd watched VOY more, I might have seen others, but of the series I do know, I have a very high standard as to what is and isn't backed by the evidence.)
I find that slash should be measured in degrees of "wrongitudity" and the greater the wrongitudity, the more amusing the slashing is.
Maybe Harry was supposed to trade sex for rank? Doing a half assed job didn't seem to be bringing home the bacon.
Maybe Harry was supposed to trade sex for rank? Doing a half assed job didn't seem to be bringing home the bacon.
I'm not missing the point, I think everyone has already answered your question: nobody in this thread sees such evidence anywhere on screen. I thought that you were asking the question because you found a J/K fanfic and were surprised that someone would pair them up? You seem to be implying that there has to be subtext on screen in order for someone to write a slash fanfic about it. My point is that it doesn't. Maybe the writer of the fanfic thought he or she saw the subtext, but you'd have to ask them about it. Or maybe they didn't, but just liked the idea anyway, like some people like to pair up characters who have hardly even been on screen together or characters from different shows because they just think they'd look hot together.I think you're missing my point.
I don't care if you (plural) understand why I find a particular pairing or not. My question was where might we find evidence of such a pairing on screen. It is not why would someone create that pairing in fanfiction.
Please stop saying that I'm surprised and disturbed. It's missing the point of my post.
My apologies if I was not clear enough.
I was actually thinking that it might be more productive to direct questions about this particular fanfic to...(drum-roll)...the person who actually wrote it.
Their response will likely be along the lines of either, "(shrug) I just wrote it for fun, wasn't looking for subtext," or, "I saw subtext at points x, y and z."
Either way, the author is certainly more qualified to speak about the basis for their work than any of us.
Their response will likely be along the lines of either, "(shrug) I just wrote it for fun, wasn't looking for subtext," or, "I saw subtext at points x, y and z."
Either way, the author is certainly more qualified to speak about the basis for their work than any of us.
I mostly agree, but I think there is one exception. If the fan fic is set many years after the end of the canon story, a good author might be able to work out a romance that had little or no official hints/subtext whatsoever. But that would take a very skilled writer, and a lot of detailed and plausible explanation about how and why the characters had developed and changed during the interim.
But I'm guessing that's not the kind of fic that got you thinking about this issue, eh, Admiral?
No, not really, and I have seen fics that do just that. They seem perfectly fine. Of course, I more-or-less consider the "official" books to be just that. So...
This was a Janeway-has-the-hots-for kind of thing that make me
It wasn't so much surprise. Hell, I've seen Janeway/Neelix, Janeway/Prehensile Plant... Janeway/Janeway, so that wasn't it.
The whole thing just got me to thinking, and I realized that I, personally, only see legitimacy in story lines created by fans if there some sort of text on screen to base it on, be that subtext or whatever.
That rolled into a, "Gee, I wonder if the board could help me figure out where we could pull subtext to back up J/K".
What I should have done to start this thread was ask, "Guys, where can we find subtext for J/K?" instead of mentioned fanfiction.
Saying fanfiction is like setting off a small bomb.
No matter the outcome it's never what you were going for.
This was a Janeway-has-the-hots-for kind of thing that make me
It wasn't so much surprise. Hell, I've seen Janeway/Neelix, Janeway/Prehensile Plant... Janeway/Janeway, so that wasn't it.
The whole thing just got me to thinking, and I realized that I, personally, only see legitimacy in story lines created by fans if there some sort of text on screen to base it on, be that subtext or whatever.
That rolled into a, "Gee, I wonder if the board could help me figure out where we could pull subtext to back up J/K".
What I should have done to start this thread was ask, "Guys, where can we find subtext for J/K?" instead of mentioned fanfiction.
Saying fanfiction is like setting off a small bomb.
No matter the outcome it's never what you were going for.