Spoilers Voq Theory (graphic/violent)

[David cgc]

Also, are we to assume that the rape memories were Ash misinterpreting consensual sex between Voq and L'Rell, or was L'Rell raping Ash before Voq came along and found a way to basically make her unwilling human lover a real Klingon? I did notice last week she called him "Sweet Tyler" which didn't sound like a Klingon-like endearment at all....

Possibly the latter, but I think it's likely L'Rell abused Voq after his transformation, either because she'd never been with him properly, because she missed the real him, or to better establish his cover story about how he survived a Klingon prison for so long. It's not stated how long he was on the ship before Lorca came along, but it was long enough for him to have already met and taken a dislike to Mudd.

 

[KittyHAWK]

In Latif's words, "Transferring consciousness" is a misnomer. Maybe the Klingons have some super special tech. If it was successful, it would have been complete identification. Then a sleeper "spy" seems apparently incorrect, as Ash's individuation would have been wiped out of existence. How would Voq mimic that incredibly while operating as an officer in unknown environment? So far the hints of recalls seems telling of brutal interrogations, and, ah, possible forced couplings, and post-hynotic suggestions (Ash' warcry of "Remain Klingon or Die") or just plain incorrect recalls.

Though, Culber's analysis of Ash' anatomy sort of alludes to (severe) alterations or just plain sadistic interrogation to bend him to another's will and extract some intel.

 

[Tuskin38]

So is it safe to assume the real Tyler (or his body) is dead? That all that's left of the real Tyler is what was grafted onto Voq?

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2018/01/...ylers-journey?abthid=5a5c15c5143251f34c000007

according to this, yes.

 

[Tosk]

If Voq were transformed so thoroughly, there really wasn't that much need to cast the same actor for both roles. Maybe without all the obvious cast shennanigans the story wouldn't have been figured out months ago. On the other hand, who cares?

 

[Tuskin38]

If Voq were transformed so thoroughly, there really wasn't that much need to cast the same actor for both roles. Maybe without all the obvious cast shennanigans the story wouldn't have been figured out months ago. On the other hand, who cares?

With that much makeup, I bet that fight between him in Mirror Voq wasn't even camera trickery.

 

[Lord Garth]

If Voq were transformed so thoroughly, there really wasn't that much need to cast the same actor for both roles. Maybe without all the obvious cast shennanigans the story wouldn't have been figured out months ago. On the other hand, who cares?

Well, Shazad Latif cares. He gets to stretch out his acting and the number of episodes he was in.

 

[rahullak]

Or perhaps they were going for plausible acceptability. By those shenanigans, they've already primed most of the TV audience that visits forums such as these and other entertainment websites into thinking that there is the possibility of Ash/Voq. Which kept the speculation and conversation going, still came as a bit of a surprise and did not come as an absolute shocker that looked and sounded implausible.

 

[saddestmoon]

Sorry if this has already been floated previously (I haven’t seen this suggested prior, but that doesn’t mean I’m the first to think this).

I’m wondering if Ash/Voq ends up impregnating L’Rell (or has already, from one of her brutal attacks on him previously), and that she will give birth to a hybrid human / Klingon: of the kind we have seen previously in TOS (more human in appearance and less alien).

Perhaps they are the progenitors of the Klingons as we know them from TOS onwards? Some Klingons take after Ash/Voq while others take after L’Rell - hence why there are sometimes more human-appeared Klingons and other times more cranial-Ridged, heavily prosethic wearing, alien-appearing Klingons - and everything in between along the continuum.

So, appearance-wise, the Klingons of Discovery are essentially purely Klingon stock (free of human genetics) - whereas, at the conclusion of Discovery, what it means to be Klingon will differ, as a result of the Ash/Voq transformation process, and L’Rell giving birth.

My feeling is that something along these lines is the direction the writers may be taking, in defining what it means to ‘remain klingon’.

If this were to occur, it would place a lot of irony in Voq’s choice to undergo the transformation into becoming more human - all in the name of ‘remaining klingon’, and honouring T’kuma’s ideologies.

Apologies if I’m simply rehashing a previously floated idea, and if my phrasing is ineloquent. My intent is not to trivialise the subject matter of rape either, simply as a plot device for explaining Klingons - rather wondering if the ramifications of L’Rell / Voq / Ash will shape the Klingon species, going forward.

Discovery is a show that isn’t afraid of going dark, so it could be plausible...

 

[Lord Garth]

DSC is a prequel but at only 10 years before TOS, Kirk and crew would be fighting fifth graders.

 

[saddestmoon]

Based on linear timeline progression, that’s a good point.

Perhaps, given the nature of time travel / parallel universe hopping, It could still happen (if perhaps the Discovery were to return from the MU to the Prime timeline, at a point much earlier the Discoverse is set).

But otherwise, you are correct - not enough time for this to occur and to connect up to Cage-era TOS / Prime -Discoverse...

 

[Tim Thomason]

DSC is a prequel but at only 10 years before TOS, Kirk and crew would be fighting fifth graders.

Not out of the question. Alexander Rozhenko was a full-fledged soldier at 8 years old.

But still, not enough time for L'rell and Tyler to conceive the two dozen or so hybrids we see throughout TOS and TAS. Unless they make a couple large litters...

 

[Lord Garth]

Not out of the question. Alexander Rozhenko was a full-fledged soldier at 8 years old.

As soon as I typed what I typed, I knew someone would say that.

Ummmm... I'm going write off Alexander's rapid growth spurts as being related to how Children On Television grow up, not Klingons. Soap Opera Children become adults in two years. So there you go.

BUT let's run with it anyway.

I wouldn't have exactly called Alexander a full-fledged warrior in DS9's "Sons & Daughters". That's using the term "full-fledged" pretty liberally.

Matrok: "Why are you here?"

Alexander: "To serve The Empire!"

Martok (paraphrasing): "That is a slogan! Not an answer."

Or, as Martok said elsewhere: "Lie to yourself if you must, but not to me."

Finally, Alexander's thoughts on his Klingon-ness in "You Are Cordially Invited": "I can't even say my own name in Klingon!"

Alexander wasn't so much an adult. He was a "teenager" trying to be something he wasn't. Which is unfortunately pretty normal. I guess you have to find out who you're not before you find out who you are.

In TOS: Kor, Koloth, and Kang are much more mature than this and would probably be older.