But then we wouldn't have gotten cool scenes of Voq getting chopped up! By-the-by, that is lifted directly from the graphic novel "Klingons: Blood Will Tell". When they show the procedure Arne Darvin went through before becoming a spy.
Spoilers Visual continuity - Does Discovery strictly need to show past designs... at all?
- Thread starter INACTIVERedDwarf
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But then we wouldn't have gotten cool scenes of Voq getting chopped up! By-the-by, that is lifted directly from the graphic novel "Klingons: Blood Will Tell". When they show the procedure Arne Darvin went through before becoming a spy.
that depends on the story they are trying to tell. a lot of stories were told without talking about the Augment virus. Are all those stories invalid?
In a story where a Klingon is being turned into a human, do you choose the agonizing surgical method or the relatively painless augment virus method? Every single Klingon we saw in TOS was infected (or they should be if it's all the same universe, right?) so they have plenty of it at hand.
personally? I'd chose the surgery and never talk about that damn virus to outsiders again.
but, if we were honest, one would think 100 years after the augment virus, it might be detectable by starfleet scans
but, if we were honest, one would think 100 years after the augment virus, it might be detectable by starfleet scans
I think none of it really matters. Because at some point, probably in the near future, there will be a new version of the adventures of Kirk, Spock and Company. I wouldn't be surprised if it is Captain Burnham handing off the NCC-1701 to Kirk.
Which will lead to the decanonization of the original Star Trek.
Which will lead to the decanonization of the original Star Trek.
Well, he wasn't just converted into any human but specifically Ash Tyler. using the Augment virus would turn Voq into a less Klingony version of himself but that wouldn't make him look like Ash Tyler. There would still be need of futuristic surgery in order to change Voq's various features like size or head form.
Tie-in media has suggested that the augmented Klingons were initially seen as inferior but started "overtaking" the Klingon Empire, so maybe we just aren't at the point where the augmented Klingons rose to prominence. And of course we haven't exactly seen that many Klingons. Most of them were from an obscure cult who probably didn't allow any "non-pure" Klingons, remember the "We remain Klingon" stuff T'Kuvma was always talking about? The rest of the Klingons were from High Houses who too may very well be bigoted against Klingon augments.
He didn't tell Kirk who his parents were until they literally beamed aboard and waited until they were taken into custody by his half-brothel to tell Kirk about him. Not telling Kirk, or anyone else, about Burnham doesn't seem too weird.
Here's a quote from Memory Alpha: "The reasoning for the difficulties in intraship beaming was not stated. A technology capable of transporting a subject over thousands of kilometers without error should be able to do so over a few dozen meters easily, though one could speculate that the emitters are focused away from the ship, as shown in the technical manuals." It could well be that Discovery specifically has inward-focused emitters, maybe because it is a test ship and chances of dangerous malfunctions are higher, so being able to transport everybody immediately to sickbay might have been higher prioritized. As to Spock's line that inship beaming "has rarely been done because of the danger involved" could refer to only the Enterprise, meaming that intra-ship beaming was rarely done on the Enterprise not on every Starfleet ship.
I highly doubt it will stick around.
I don't think the crazy person who was so jealous of Kirk getting a command while she didn't, that she swapped bodies with Kirk by employing an ancient machine that Greg Cox used a lot better in an excellent time travel novel, is the best source for information on the 23rd century. Plus, as you said it's a really shitty one.
I usually don't get involved in these particular debates because, well, I don't care that it looks different from TOS, but the logic behind this statement doesn't pass muster. By this logic, from The Motion Picture forward is a reboot because from 1979 -> 2005 if you put a TOS Klingon in the same room with a Motion Picture Klingon, you can't explain the exact same differences in anatomy, aside from Worf's one "We don't discuss it" line. In point of fact, Gene Roddenberry viewed it, while not using the exact term, as a visual reboot of the Klingons. He just said as far as he was concerned, the TMP version was now how they always looked.
There's a point though where it becomes comical.
1967... this is how they look...
1979... this is how they were supposed to always look...
1983... this is how they were supposed to always look...
2017... this is how they were supposed to always look...
until we find REAL Klingons to play those roles, we have to put Humans in make up and masks.As technology progresses over the decades, we come closer and closer to the the real Klingon look
I honestly don't see much of a difference between the various interpretations: ridged headed warrior race -> Klingon
I honestly don't see much of a difference between the various interpretations: ridged headed warrior race -> Klingon
Voq was turned into an existing Human, he wasn't just made to look Human.
They literally took Tyler's organs and other parts and grafted them onto him.
Side note, IIRC one of the writers or producers said that Enterprise complicated some of the stories they wanted to tell, perhaps the Voq/Tyler story was one of them.
Please god no. The last thing we need is more Utopian people who think one way and a particle of the week situation for "drama" that they spend 30 minutes at a Conference Table discussing what modification to the Deflector Dish. Plus the tech is so advanced they could literally hand-wave most problems away - no thanks.
There's a reason TOS is still popular, watched, and talked about after 50+ years - it IS Star Trek (the 24th Century GR retcon that became the 24th century era) is hopefully dead and buried for another 20 years.
Yes it was late and I was typing on my phone.
^^^^
because the Augment virus makes them look Human - it doesn't let them pass a genetic scan AS Human.
There’s a reason we still talk about TNg just about thirty years later, Ds9 25 years later...heck we haven’t shut up about ENT.
And without TNG, Trek would be a franchise that resurrected and then died in the eighties.
This place would likely not exist.
^^^
You forgot
1991 (Chang in STVI; Purple blood) ... this is how they were supposed to always look...
1987 TNG Worf... this is how they were supposed to always look...
(And this isn't to BillJ because it's also the point he's making) - ANYONE who thinks Klingons have looked exactly the same since their first visual retcon in ST:TMP hasn't really been looking at them very closely.)
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That's funny because the TOS films went into the 1990iwes ON THIER OWN - the POPULARITY OF STIV:TVH was WHY a new Star Trek series got greenlit in the first place - and ALL the TOS wera films (and the Kelvin era films which harken back to TOS) were ALL (even STV:TFF) bigger Box Office draws (adjusted fpor inflation than ANY of the TNG era feature films.
(Hell, both ST:INS and especially ST:NEM <--- The latter written by a self professed REAL TNG fan - John Logan) was beateen on it's opening weekend by "Maid In Manhattan".) <--- That's the film thnat killed the ST feature film franchise for nearly a decade.
And we are nowhere near that point yet, so it's a non issue.
What's actually sort of comical is how this discussion continues to raise a point that was made hilariously obsolete by the changes to the Klingon Bridge between TSFS and and TVH, or the Enterprise-A bridge between TVH and TFF.
The only thing we can really conclude, it seems to me, is that APPEARANCES don't tell you anything about tech level. Maybe the TOS Enterprise had computers made by Microsoft while Shenzhou and the Crossfields were outfitted by Samsung and the Kelvin Connie somehow got the contract from Apple. Same basic technology, just different keyboard layouts.
In fact, "The Undiscovered Country" is still remembered as one of the best Star Trek movies and was the highest grossing film of the series UNTIL Star Trek XI.
The Spinoff Series do have their fans and followers, AND they have a lot of media and merchandise involved, but pound for pound they haven't performed nearly as well as the star trek adapted from the original series and original cast. CBS has probably discovered this in their own research, so the new spinoffs and films are being more closely connected to the original series than the later spinoffs.
The former was shockingly idiotic, yes. Never should have happened - seemed to be more of a contrivance to re-map the BOP bridge into something more Starfleet, putting the captain at the same level as his crew, as opposed to sitting above the crew who surrounded him.
The latter is more easily explainable by an inter-movie refit where the bridge module was replaced with a newer model. The ship itself seemed to function reasonably well in TVH and then immense problems inside and after leaving space dock in TFF. A major upgrade appears to have taken place on the ship in the intervening time which could easily rationalize the bridge discrepancy.
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