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Spoilers Visual continuity - Does Discovery strictly need to show past designs... at all?

They think its like a historical piece, and that in Star Trek, the 2260's were running around in 1960's mini dresses and resister and vacuum tech. I don't fully grasp the reasoning as it makes zero sense to me.

I probably explained the reasoning a zillion lengthy posts ago, including my own. And since I am in the ‘no you don’t have to perfectly emulate a failed pilot’ camp, there’s no reason to conflate the two. Trek is like a period piece because Trek has always functioned with something like its own internal history (its never been perfect, but then, nor has actual history...Viking’s? Warriors? Rapists? Friendly farmers? How do we spell and say Boudicca? ) and so it functions like one from a certain production perspective. Using that as an example, you can have various levels of production design on anything set in a particular era...certain levels of detail, sometimes so much that two productions set in the same era can look almost totally different (say...Elizabeth the film, Elizabeth R the BBC TV series from the seventies, and The Tudors TV series. Though that last one has some amusing anachronisms like radiators apparently.) but are still clearly within that era. It’s the non-production details (mostly, I think most are agreed the Klingon ships are a design failure, and the jury is still out on the Klingons themselves.) like events and certain levels of progress that can jar with that (spore drives, holo displays) and other things that work with that (phaser design, communicator design) in the production design area.
So yes, Trek is a period piece, so how far you can bend it is the question. You could write ‘Star trek’ in front of say..Dark Matter (it shares many elements) but it would not be Star Trek. You can write it in front of The Orville, and it would be extremely close, but...it would not be Star Trek. DSC...well, there’s the question, and it’s production design is jarring in places. Only the narrative will ultimately answer that though, not if they all get colourful long sleeve T-Shirts in ten years time.
 
Only Women, he makes sure every time a women in there to explain what uniform she ware and how many times she needs to adjust it.

Up their alley so to speak? Weird. Never noticed that about Mack. I associate him with shoot outs in corridor like spaces, Death and disfigurement, and the last minute rescue of Bashir by Dax usually.
 
It is made 50 years after the original. It is more than just the look, it is the way the show feels. In 2255, Pike isn't use to having women on the bridge, we have women going around saying their frightened and hiding behind men, women referred to as "girls" by military officers. In 2256 (and seven years before), we have a female captain and women all over the bridge. 2256 is the right way to be, but at the same time, it doesn't fit socially with a show made fifty years prior and in no way should or could.
Those sexist attitudes should absolutely not be emulated in a modern production! They were embarrassing by the 70's and are absolutely the most cringeworthy aspect of TOS, way worse than any shortcoming of sets or special effects.

I want primary coloured uniforms and whimsical sense of adventure from TOS, the sexism can stay in the 60's. Dear Athe, I don't believe I had to type this.
 
Discovery is using the time period yet not understanding the context of the times the original Star Trek was made.
That's a contradiction. Star Trek wasn't set in the 1960s, nor is there anything canonically connecting the mid 23rd century to the "context" of 1960s cultural evolution. The social context of the original writers is therefore irrelevant.

Discovery is trying to do for the CURRENT generation of viewers what TOS did for the PREVIOUS generation. Ironically, this means you are focused so much on the context of the 1960s that you are overlooking the context of the 2010s that actually defines the show.

Star Trek is and has always been about looking through the present into the future, NOT clinging to the past. The only puzzling thing is why Trek fandom is so obsessed with its own past that it cannot accept the present OR the future.
 
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A prequel that doesn't fit into that world visually or thematically tends to be called a reboot.

But if it's the same continuity, plot-wise? And "thematically" is a bit abstract and subjective.

Bottom line: old chronology, new visuals. And, to my mind, the visuals are just the window dressing. The actual story stuff is still the same.

(No disrespect intended to the many talented people, past and present, who have labored on the production end of things for all these decades. But the "timeline" doesn't change just because the props and costumes and ship designs got a makeover.)
 
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I do not see DSC has the essence asTOS. Sure the alpha and beta systems are the same,and two or three hand props could fit.itisyoo dark and visual are like the JJ movies.
 
well the visuals are similar, because the show and those movies were created around the same time. It would be very weird if DISCO had a totally different aesthetic than the Kelvinverse movies.
but aside modern production values it still feels very TOS most of the time
 
But if it's the same continuity, plot-wise? And "thematically" is a bit abstract and subjective.

Bottom line: old chronology, new visuals. And, to my mind, the visuals are just the window dressing. The actual story stuff is still the same.

I realize I'm coming into this discussion late, but wow. This type of comment is very dismissive of very many artisans who helped Star Trek become what it is today: Pato Guzman, Matt Jefferies, William Ware Theiss, Wah Chang, Richard Datin, etc. They contributed just as much as Roddennberry, Coon, Justman, Fontana, Shatner, Nimoy, etc. Let's be honest - Star Trek became popular because it was greater than the sum of its parts. Producers, writers, actors, and yes, even the designers - they all participated equally to elevate Star Trek to its place in popular culture. So to say the work they did is just "window dressing" is, quite frankly, appalling. And that ultimately is what I think angers many of us about the situation, that there are so many people here who feel like you do and disregard those artistic efforts as unimportant to the recipe. "Throw out those old visuals; the guys who created them are dunsels!" Bah!
 
And that ultimately is what I think angers many of us about the situation, that there are so many people here who feel like you do and disregard those artistic efforts as unimportant to the recipe. "Throw out those old visuals; the guys who created them are dunsels!" Bah!

Yep. Those are the folks that made the surroundings feel real, and they are simply dismissed for something flashy and expensive.
 
As for calling it a prequel . . . that's a chronological issue. It's about WHEN the show is set, not what it looks like.

IMO - it's a bit of BOTH. If they said "Hey, it uses PU continuity but it's a bit of a re-imagining too..." - I'd be fine with it, and when they show different ship classes we haven't seen - hey do what you like with the exterior. BUT the Starship/Constitution Class has a particular and iconic look in that particular Star Trek period; and while no, I'm NOT saying "Break out the AMT model kit here..." - they can do a modern and good looking 2017 detailed model that USES that iconic look - and since they say "Yes, definitely, this is the Star Trek Prime Universe 10 years prior to Kirk and Spock..." and have reiterated that again and again, that's what they NEED to do IF they are being truthful/honest about that particular statement.

Same with internal sets. New ship classes we have never seen: Do what you like. IF they show an internal shot of Pike's U.S.S. Enterprise, YES, it should look like it did in that Star Trek era.

Will I hate the show going forward if they don't attempt this? No. Will I be disappointed that the production staff (who CHOSE to set the show in the era yet changed iconic exterior ship designs no fan has ever had an issue with for 50+ years, and which still graces TV screens in re-runs today? Yes.

The Defiant sets they used for ENT in 2004 looked fine in HD and even the production staff stated they'd have no issues shooting in them or using them long term as they worked, looked fine, allowed for camera movement, etc.

Again, you want to do a full re-imagining? Fine. But state that up front. Don't sit there and say - oh we're adhering to canon, etc - and look at these Tricorder and Phaser props (which ARE in fact very faithful to the art design for such props from the original show) - BUT we're re-designing all the ships you saw in the original show."
 
Will I hate the show going forward if they don't attempt this? No. Will I be disappointed that the production staff (who CHOSE to set the show in the era yet changed iconic exterior ship designs no fan has ever had an issue with for 50+ years, and which still graces TV screens in re-runs today? Yes.

The new "D-7" still chaps my ass! :lol:
 
We can easily say the same of the writers, but their ideas are being treated with a reverence.
I guess that's why there is this massive outcry why we haven't seen space hippies yet.

there is a lot of stuff that wouldn't work today that made it to the screen in the 60s, both in writing and in the art department (and certainly in the acting). it's best to focus on what still works and ignore the rest.

btw, do you really think if Jeffries lived today, with todays technology and budget in his hands, that his designs would look the same?
 
So yes, Trek is a period piece, so how far you can bend it is the question.

No, it is not. Its 2256, not 1966. It should not have cheap, old, campy looking sets and tech powered by vacuum tubes and resisters

Up their alley so to speak? Weird. Never noticed that about Mack. I associate him with shoot outs in corridor like spaces, Death and disfigurement, and the last minute rescue of Bashir by Dax usually.

It stuck out at me hard.It was something that pulled me out of the story every single time.

I do not see DSC has the essence asTOS. Sure the alpha and beta systems are the same,and two or three hand props could fit.itisyoo dark and visual are like the JJ movies.

It and Kevlin are not alike visually at all. They do share a modern filming style, but the visuals are not the same.

Same with internal sets. New ship classes we have never seen: Do what you like. IF they show an internal shot of Pike's U.S.S. Enterprise, YES, it should look like it did in that Star Trek era.

Will I hate the show going forward if they don't attempt this? No. Will I be disappointed that the production staff (who CHOSE to set the show in the era yet changed iconic exterior ship designs no fan has ever had an issue with for 50+ years, and which still graces TV screens in re-runs today? Yes.

The Defiant sets they used for ENT in 2004 looked fine in HD and even the production staff stated they'd have no issues shooting in them or using them long term as they worked, looked fine, allowed for camera movement, etc.

Again, you want to do a full re-imagining? Fine. But state that up front. Don't sit there and say - oh we're adhering to canon, etc - and look at these Tricorder and Phaser props (which ARE in fact very faithful to the art design for such props from the original show) - BUT we're re-designing all the ships you saw in the original show."

Hell No, it looked cheap, old and goofy. Like someone put modern paint on a model T and claimed it new and high tech. Only a subset of trek fans liked it. A small, but loud and aging out subset.
 
btw, do you really think if Jeffries lived today, with todays technology and budget in his hands, that his designs would look the same?

But Jefferies, Wah Chang and the rest aren't living today. They were living in the 1960's and essentially created the visual wheel where Star Trek is concerned.
 
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