Very confused with Klingons

[Serpentor]

I have been wondering this since I saw the episode.
Why in Sins of The Father did they not choose to dishonor the Duras family like they should've. Now before you say it would split the council (Which makes no sense to me) wouldn't the council want to kill a traitor instead of let him live?

 

[Finn]

Duras was too powerful. It would cause a lot of problems.

In other words, politics

Sound familiar?

 

[Tina Lawton]

Bush's fault.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

This began one of the best arcs in TNG, in my humble, Worf-loving opinion I thought K'Mpec explained it pretty well at the end. It was purely political, and showed that even those who claim to be honorable can have ulterior motives. Watch "Reunion" and "Redemption," it all comes together rather nicely.

Bush's fault.

 

[Serpentor]

Watching Redemption right now. But you would think anyone that was his ally would desert him after finding out his father was a traitor there for taking any power he had away from him? Why support someone whos father betrayed your people? Its like they want their empire taken over by Romulans.

 

[Lt. LaForge]

Like Worf'sParmach, I too love the Klingon arc.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

Watching Redemption right now. But you would think anyone that was his ally would desert him after finding out his father was a traitor there for taking any power he had away from him? Why support someone whos father betrayed your people? Its like they want their empire taken over by Romulans.

Not everyone knew about Duras, and that was the point. They didn't want the Romulan connection to his father to get out. And at the time of "Sins of the Father" K'Mpec trusted that Duras wasn't going to continue with the Romulans the way his father had (which, he was wrong about obviously). I don't think Duras really had any "friends" but had wealth and had built a personal fleet of ships that his sisters later used in the Civil War.

Did you watch Reunion?

 

[Timo]

A few random musings...

Klingons betraying one another might not be considered particularly dishonorable. It's the ultimate show of loyalty in the Klingon society for the underling to eliminate the weak superior - and sometimes this takes scheming rather than direct force...

Klingons betraying Klingondom to foreign scum would probably still be frowned upon, though. But at the time, "Klingondom" was in a bit of turmoil, as we see in "Heart of Glory". In that episode, the Kahless cult and the old ways were a "counterculture", and its proponents were hunted down; since Gowron later appeared to support these ways, we could speculate that his opponent Duras was opposed to them, and thus in political favor during the early TNG. Supporting such a figure would be worth doing even if he had known or suspected Romulan sympathies.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Serpentor]

Not everyone knew about Duras, and that was the point. They didn't want the Romulan connection to his father to get out.

Thats what it was. I thought it said the entire council knew about his fathers betrayal and decided to sweep it under the rug. That clears it up, thank you.
Yes I did see Reunion.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

Not everyone knew about Duras, and that was the point. They didn't want the Romulan connection to his father to get out.

Thats what it was. I thought it said the entire council knew about his fathers betrayal and decided to sweep it under the rug. That clears it up, thank you.
Yes I did see Reunion.

Yes, The Council knew but if outsiders like, say, Gowron knew it would have ended up in Civil War. Which ended up happening anyway.

 

[Disruptor]

There would be those besides the Duras family that favored a Romulan alliance over an alliance with the Federation, regardless of the Khitomer attack.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Makes no sense since being allied with the Feds, the Klingons were enjoying lots of prosperity. They got free transit through Fed space which probably increased opportunities.

Being allied with the Feds seems to make a lot more sense than going with a power that sneak attacks them and whom they've been at war with for decades.

Some Klingons are damn strange.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

Makes no sense since being allied with the Feds, the Klingons were enjoying lots of prosperity. They got free transit through Fed space which probably increased opportunities.

Being allied with the Feds seems to make a lot more sense than going with a power that sneak attacks them and whom they've been at war with for decades.

Some Klingons are damn strange.

You're thinking about it from a "What's best for the Empire" viewpoint. The Duras operate based on what's best for them. In Redemption, Lursa and B'Etor ally with the Romulans to get the extra backing they need to takeover the Empire. In return, they'd have to make nice with the Romulans, but in their opinion it was worth the price.

If I recall, they were never 100% clear on why their father Jarod worked with the Romulans at Khitomer. Off to go watch "Sins.." again to to see if I can figure out why.

 

[Timo]

Also, it's possible (even if not canonically certain) that the Klingons already had good impressions on an alliance with Romulans. Even if the (supposed) period of cooperation around the time of TOS and the TOS movies ended in betrayal, Klingons would enjoy knowing they can put their full trust on Romulan betrayal - whereas they'd know next to nothing about how the Federation would betray them as an ally.

It's not as if an expansionist empire could ever count on having non-backstabbing allies. The Romulan Star Empire would be as good a partner as any, and probably in many ways better than the UFP, which exacts a price for the prosperity by frowning on bloodbaths and shirking away from joint campaigns of mayhem.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[vpton081]

Klingons betraying one another might not be considered particularly dishonorable. It's the ultimate show of loyalty in the Klingon society for the underling to eliminate the weak superior - and sometimes this takes scheming rather than direct force...

 

[7thsealord]

Klingons betraying one another might not be considered particularly dishonorable. It's the ultimate show of loyalty in the Klingon society for the underling to eliminate the weak superior - and sometimes this takes scheming rather than direct force...

Ummm. I recall seeing those exact same words by somebody else earlier in this thread.

 

[The Librarian]

Keep in mind that these are the same people who think its okay to slaughter five hundred civilians if one of their soldiers is killed, and to shove a mind-sifter into a person's brain and turn him into a vegetable instead of facing him in open combat.

 

[Timo]

...Both of these being typical signs of warrior honor in Earth history, too. The underlying assumption being, only a warrior has honor, and civilians and captives have no rights or worth. It's pretty clever, really: how else would you get warriors if not by bribing them with the right to have worth and rights (and the occasional bit of fun with non-warriors)?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tina Lawton]

Ummm. I recall seeing those exact same words by somebody else earlier in this thread.

Maybe he screwed up with the quote function.

However "Redemption" and the supporting episodes which came before it are the seminal episodes to consider in relation to this question. Consequently, the Sisters of Duras showing up in "Generations" was something only the fans of the show would really get.

Before the snark flies, obvious comments I know, but true none-the-less.

 

[Timo]

Maybe he screwed up with the quote function.

"He" is actually an "it", a mindless piece of software out to do malice. It's one of the more absurd forms of cyberattack, is all. I don't really know why these 'bots bother. I If were fifty lines of code trying to pass the Turing test, I'd try my luck in juicier fori...

I've always appreciated how alien the Klingons are in their little cultural quirks. The internal illogic of their customs and mores makes them almost human! And the fact that they so often are in cahoots with the Romulans gives more weight to their accusations of human racism in ST6: they treat alien species with nonchalant contempt appropriate for a race of their own species, or for the ugly fatso from next door, while humans can barely bear touching species that have alien ways and customs, without launching into a moral sermon of some sort.

Timo Saloniemi