Various The Last Airbender theories

[Graywand2]

Hi, I'm starting this thread to discuss various The Last Airbender theories people might have.

My pet theory for this series is that Dukat was used as an inspiration for Azula. It is a possibility considering how her career is similar to Dukat's in many respect. They were both the appointed masters of their countries under brutal overlords (the Dominion and Phoenix King Ozai), for example. They both went completely nuts due to the actions of people they considered their friends. They were both brilliant tacticians and brutal overlords themselves, and obsessed with bringing honor and glory to their nations.

Another one is that the bombing of Zuko's ship is awfully similar to the attack on the USS Cole.

The other theory is that most comes to mind is the one that apparently everyone on the the Avatar boards seems to accept without question, that I would if this were on another network. That Sokka and Suki were somewhat more...physically involved and that they implied that on the series.

So, what do you think of these? Please feel free to jump in with your own.

 

[Gojirob]

Hi, I'm starting this thread to discuss various The Last Airbender theories people might have.

My pet theory for this series is that Dukat was used as an inspiration for Azula. It is a possibility considering how her career is similar to Dukat's in many respect. They were both the appointed masters of their countries under brutal overlords (the Dominion and Phoenix King Ozai), for example. They both went completely nuts due to the actions of people they considered their friends. They were both brilliant tacticians and brutal overlords themselves, and obsessed with bringing honor and glory to their nations.

The other theory is that most comes to mind is the one that apparently everyone on the the Avatar boards seems to accept without question, that I would if this were on another network. That Sokka and Suki were somewhat more...physically involved and that they implied that on the series.

So, what do you think of these? Please feel free to jump in with your own.

You may be on to something there, but I tend to see more differences between Dukat and Azula than similarities. Dukat mistook the few acts of real mercy he ever did for his total redemption, which may not even have been possible. At best, IF he had stayed behind on Bajor, faced war crimes trials and turned all evidence he had against Cardassian activities during the Occupation and beyond, he might have achieved a slightly higher place in history. I'm not sure if the direct, public blessing of the Prophets themselves could have won him anything other than forgiveness, but never forgetfulness. It was when he realized his recoginition or redemption as he wanted it was a fool's errand, then he broke.

Azula reveled in her power. She may have wanted more, but for the most part only in an envious way. She had pillars to her existence. She was always the favored heir, she could always manipulate and beat Zuko, she could always dominate everyone through fear or her superior intellect, and she was so ruthless and so far advanced in every type of combat that she would never, ever be beaten.

The series stuns you by removing all these pillars in a relative heartbeat.
She became Fire Lord, only for that title to suddenly mean no more than the one she had. Her father was revealed (to her, we all knew) to be just as primally self-centered as her, and deep down had no greater regard for her than for Zuko, save as a tool. Zuko now was past her manipulations and rising quickly as a combatant, to the point he could almost take her by himself. Mai and Ty Lee told her to FOAD in no uncertain terms, and plainly stated that their 'friendship' was the illusion of a bully with the power. Finally, the brother she regarded as a toy to play with and break as she saw fit joined with a girl of no noble birth whose brother openly and honestly worshipped her, and despite all her best and worst tricks, she ended up chained to a sewer grate, helpless. By this point she had banished everyone who might have fought on her behalf, and this defeat was the final step on a journey that held her up to a mirror and said :
"You're not the next queen of the world. You're a teenage girl with no parents, no siblings, no friends. You were able to cast lightning and throw a mean punch, and snark off a mean line of dialogue. That's all you ever had, and now that's been taken too."

Dukat thought he could be himself and yet be regarded as being wholly unlike his self. Azula thought she could always have full control over who she was. When these simple lies were shattered, they fell down--hard.

As to Sokka and Suki, I kinda think it went PG13 behind the scenes, but Suki's a smart girl. Any activity that would leave her grounded, shall we say, she would avoid, although maybe not too much longer. I think marriages in that world may occur earlier than ours.

 

[Christopher]

My pet theory for this series is that Dukat was used as an inspiration for Azula. It is a possibility considering how her career is similar to Dukat's in many respect. They were both the appointed masters of their countries under brutal overlords (the Dominion and Phoenix King Ozai), for example. They both went completely nuts due to the actions of people they considered their friends. They were both brilliant tacticians and brutal overlords themselves, and obsessed with bringing honor and glory to their nations.

Fiction is full of recurring themes. Human beings are human beings, so the same patterns of motivation, behavior, interaction, etc. recur over and over again in our stories and in our real history. So it never makes sense to assume that if two characters resemble each other, one was directly based on the other. It's infinitely more likely that both are merely the latest iterations of a character type that stretches back to the dawn of human storytelling. Ambitious tyrants descending into madness? Come on, there are a million of those in fiction. Power corrupts, and all that.

Another one is that the bombing of Zuko's ship is awfully similar to the attack on the USS Cole.

Are you referring to Zhao's assassination attempt in "The Waterbending Master?" I don't see the similarity. Zhao's assassins snuck aboard and planted explosives on the ship itself. The Cole bombers placed a shaped charge on the exterior of the craft. The only things they have in common are that they're bombings of large vessels by small teams, and surely that's happened thousands of times in real life and in fiction. Again, it's illogical to assume that a passing similarity between two things is proof of direct inspiration, because the world is very big and very old and most everything has happened (or been written about) many times before.

The other theory is that most comes to mind is the one that apparently everyone on the the Avatar boards seems to accept without question, that I would if this were on another network. That Sokka and Suki were somewhat more...physically involved and that they implied that on the series.

Huh? Toward the end there, we out-and-out saw Suki trying to sneak into Sokka's tent at night. So the series was definitely implying that they were having sex. How could they be more physically involved than that?


And could we please refer to the show as Avatar or Avatar: The Last Airbender, in order to distinguish it from the live-action movie adaptation? I was expecting this to be a thread about theories for how the makers of the movie could have possibly made the dreadful decisions they've made about it so far.

 

[Graywand2]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

Here's another one, what do you imagine happened to Ty Lee and Mai during there...incarceration in the Boiling Rock. My personal theory is that they were essentially put through hell, and that Mai's Uncle essentially became indifferent to her and Ty the moment they attacked Azula, and while he didn't single them out for brutalization, he didn't exactly try to help them.

 

[CYOTI]

And could we please refer to the show as Avatar or Avatar: The Last Airbender, in order to distinguish it from the live-action movie adaptation? I was expecting this to be a thread about theories for how the makers of the movie could have possibly made the dreadful decisions they've made about it so far.

They are making a movie?

 

[Gojirob]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

Here's another one, what do you imagine happened to Ty Lee and Mai during there...incarceration in the Boiling Rock. My personal theory is that they were essentially put through hell, and that Mai's Uncle essentially became indifferent to her and Ty the moment they attacked Azula, and while he didn't single them out for brutalization, he didn't exactly try to help them.

I took from the finale an implication that they both found common cause with Suki's warriors, with Ty Lee actually making friends and joining them. I can see it now :

Mai : Hi. We both hate Azula's stinking guts. Wanna watch each other's backs til she melts down?

Ty Lee : We give it two weeks.

Mai : Three, Max.

BTW, someone did a funny AMV of the beach ep with Ty Lee, Azula and 'Popular' from 'Wicked'.

 

[Graywand2]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

Cool, could you post the link? I'd ask in a PM, but I don't have fifty posts yet.

Also, do you think there's a possibility of Aang "resurrecting" the Airbenders through Energybending, i.e. giving people Airbending powers so that the Avatar cycle won't break automatically.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

Also, do you think there's a possibility of Aang "resurrecting" the Airbenders through Energybending, i.e. giving people Airbending powers so that the Avatar cycle won't break automatically.

I think that's very probable. He couldn't possibly repopulate the Air Nomads singlehandedly; he's just one guy, and even if he fathered a lot of kids, they'd all be half-airbender at most -- maybe not even that, since it's unclear whether bending ability is hereditary, or what would happen if benders of two different types procreated together. So imbuing airbending ability in others through energy-bending -- or chi-bending, as I like to think of it -- is probably the only way he can restore the balance.

 

[Takeru]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

I think that's very probable. He couldn't possibly repopulate the Air Nomads singlehandedly; he's just one guy, and even if he fathered a lot of kids, they'd all be half-airbender at most -- maybe not even that, since it's unclear whether bending ability is hereditary, or what would happen if benders of two different types procreated together.

It was never stated in the show, but the creators said more in interviews. Bending is hereditary within a nation's population, but not genetically (they had twins in the Earth Kingdom in one episode, one was a bender, the other wasn't), it's spiritual. If benders of different types, i.e. Aang and Katara have children, they will be either airbenders or waterbenders or no benders at all, Aang being the avatar doesn't matter, there won't be earth or firebenders among their children. There's also no such thing as a half-airbender, all children of Aang that have airbending abilities are airbenders, period. They have the same potential as all airbenders of the past and the same rules apply to them.
That means it really is possible for Aang ro repopulate the Air Nomads alone, as airbending will not be diluted by procreating with other benders. The new air nomads may not be nomads anymore and a lot of the traditions and culture will probably disappear, but there will be airbenders and the cycle will not be broken.

The only problem could be if Aang is stupid enough to decide that "two children are enough", then there's a big chance that none of them will be an airbender and the avatar cycle is screwed. Aang should probably not live in a monogamous relationship, just to be sure. If he manages to father 60 or 70 children in his lifetime and 20 of them are airbenders, that would be more than enough.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

^^Okay. Still, the kid's eleven, and he's not gonna be procreating for a few years at least. Anything could happen to him in that time. Better if he can imbue airbending ability in others through chi-bending, since that's something he can do right away.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

What I want to know is why Iroh made such a deal out of Zuko being the descendant of Roku and Sozin, but he doesn't seem to care that Azula is as well. I mean shouldn't she also have this "war within herself" thing too?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

What I want to know is why Iroh made such a deal out of Zuko being the descendant of Roku and Sozin, but he doesn't seem to care that Azula is as well. I mean shouldn't she also have this "war within herself" thing too?

I think the Roku side of her had already lost the war. She'd made up her mind about who she was a long time before and wasn't receptive to change. Zuko was still ambivalent and therefore malleable.

Besides, it's a destiny thing and a spiritual-balance thing. Aang was the sole inheritor of the Avatars' soul, so he could only be balanced by a single inheritor of the Fire Nation Avatar's bloodline. Just as bending ability is hereditary but in a spiritual rather than a genetic way (so that, for instance, Katara could waterbend but not Sokka), so apparently Zuko's destiny as the heir of Roku was his alone rather than something he shared with Azula.

Although in a sense he did share his destiny with Azula, because his destiny was to play a key role in defeating her (or at least setting her up for Katara to take down). It's yin and yang, the balance of opposites. Light and dark are intermingled and inseparable, so the positive destiny (Zuko) had to be intertwined with a negative one (Azula). Or something like that.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Re: Various Avatar: The Last Airbender theories

What I want to know is why Iroh made such a deal out of Zuko being the descendant of Roku and Sozin, but he doesn't seem to care that Azula is as well. I mean shouldn't she also have this "war within herself" thing too?

Well, so was Iroh just as much a descendant.

I believe that like bending, and like being the Avatar, it was more of being a spiritural descendant.

I believe the firlord line had a spiritual corruption that was being passed on through the generations.

I think there is a similar idea here to the old tradition of the line of kings having a mandate to rule from "god", that the line of kings is spiritual not just genetic. So the line of inheritance is not just physical, it is also the soul.

This means that a big part of the healing of the world came about through the reconciliation of Zuko and Aang.

The corruption, the rift and the healing was as much metaphorical as it was metaphysical. By this I mean, certain things had to "line up" and occur in the real world, for the spirits to be able follow.

Iroh was also a descendant, but it wasn't enough for Iroh to become friends with the Avatar, or to have an epiphany and turn away from the corruption. Zuko could do it because he and Aang were of the same generation and could recreate the friendship that had been broken and betrayed.

Zuko and Azula represent a spiritual split that also happened with Iroh and Ozai, where one accepted the corruption and the other sought redemption. Both Zuko and Iroh followed a path of redemption through their lives, but we only see Iroh's in retrospect.

Iroh could, in theory, have ended the corruption like Zuko did, except there was no Avatar for his generation. So the role fell to the next generation, Zuko.

 

[V]

your theories that Azula is specifically similar to Dukat, or that Zuko's ship getting attacked is like the USS Cole attack......are laughably, comically ludicrous, and have no basis in reality.

There's nothing more to it than that, no debate: you are beyond reality now.

 

[FordSVT]

I like to think there is still a secret, hidden population of airbenders some place. They might have fled from Aang's kingdom or split off long ago and remained in seclusion, but it would make a great focus of a movie or another series I think.

 

[Graywand2]

The only one of my theory that I was truly serious about was the thing about the Zuko's Ship/USS Cole theory.

 

[Gojirob]

your theories that Azula is specifically similar to Dukat, or that Zuko's ship getting attacked is like the USS Cole attack......are laughably, comically ludicrous, and have no basis in reality.

There's nothing more to it than that, no debate: you are beyond reality now.

This being about a work of fiction, I think he would be.

 

[Christopher]

The only one of my theory that I was truly serious about was the thing about the Zuko's Ship/USS Cole theory.

Which is the one that makes the least sense, given how little they actually have in common.

 

[Graywand2]

This is one I came across on the HPFF boards a long time ago, it actually spawned a serious discussion. Which I got no end of enjoyment out of as a WWII junkie. You ready?

The question was, if it was the Fire Nation instead of the Empire of Japan that attacked the US Navy at Pearl Harbor, who do you think would've come out on top in the ensuing war?

 

[Christopher]

The question was, if it was the Fire Nation instead of the Empire of Japan that attacked the US Navy at Pearl Harbor, who do you think would've come out on top in the ensuing war?

Uhhhh.... the Millennium Falcon.

Really, how do you even compare things that come from different universes with different physical laws? The only way you can even justify the conflict existing at all is by inventing an arbitrary situation that requires changing the rules under which one or both entities operate, and if you can do that, you can arbitrarily set it up in a way that favors either competitor. So there's no way of getting a meaningful answer.