Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Tuskin38, Jan 8, 2020.
Eh, I see some big left-wing youtube channels do it, it's fine.
Fighting trolls, massive flame wars, getting stabbed in the back, duals popping up everywhere...
Good times! Wait a minute... No, I take that back.
Eh, mocking someone like Midnight's Edge who deserves it, is all in good fun. If you can't satirize these people, who can you satirize?
Anyway, let's stop derailing this thread, I just thought people would just laugh at that fool and move on, not get into some weird debate I never intended to start.
My point is, Picard should be a social critique of modern events, so people who think that politics should not be in this show, do not understand this franchise.
Nope, this franchise has never been misunderstood...
You misunderstand. I mock and satirize them all the time. Here's a very recent example. I just don't take the fight directly to them. They want it and, as far as I'm concerned, the Hell with what they want.
Those things I was recalling, that was actual stuff I went through during my first few years on the board during the first go-around. It's not as fun as it sounds.
There are fans who watch it for the battle scenes and aliens... I guess if that's why you like Trek, you can have any political opinion. Right-wing fans probably skip the thoughtful allegorical episodes and watch the action-heavy ones more.
It's actually a good thing Trek has something for a very broad group of people. Some focus on character development, some on philosophy, others on weird concepts, and some just like a good batleth fight or the DS9 fleet battles. I know a hardcore alt-right fan who likes Sisko, DS9, the various wars and battles, the relentlessness of the Borg, and the thrill of some of the episodes the most. He finds episodes like Darmok ridiculous XD
If only we had some sort of phrase on a popular TV show to illustrate such a concept...
Except I am not going on the comment section of the video to debunk it, just to dog piled by trolls, I posted here, without the author of the video knowing, so people could laugh at some fool who thinks Ricky Gervais making some jokes at the Golden Globes negates any sort of social criticism in Star Trek or that politics never had a place in Star Trek.
I wouldn't have posted it if people were going to start a pointless debate, rather than just have a good laugh or not being able to tell the difference between a normal kinda annoying Trek fan and actual, bad faith, really stupid troll, like Midnight's Edge. Anyway, how about moving on, I am getting a bit annoyed now.
Because these people's criticism is stupid. Seriously this video said Ricky Gervais making jokes at the Golden Globes negates any social criticism that can be seen in fiction, these people think there should be no politics in Star Trek, is that anyway a reasonable demand, they people who make this argument have no idea on to write a show that leans into social criticism like Star Trek does, if some from the alt-right wrote a Star Trek show it would at best ''green-skinned babes and explosions'' and at worst something that promotes their alt-right ideas. These people have no idea how to write quality works.
I have seen Sam Seder, a big left-wing Youtube host, mocking someone at the Daily Wire for complaining about a woman using a board sword in the Witcher series, he mocked him because he deserved it.
How about let me have my bad joke, instead of derailing the whole thread?
I was enjoying the discussion, but as you wish...
Okay then here is a quick one:
Do you think tolerance should extend to people who think the new She-Ra cartoon is not objectified enough for their tastes? Because there is a huge overlap between who complain the new Picard show is anti Brexit and people want to see more objectified females in a cartoon aimed at kids, its all part of the same man-child, nothing should change, everything should remain the same attitude these people have and yes it deserves it be mocked and it has been mocked.
Let me have my fun at these people's expense.
"No!" "But why?" "Because you wish it!"
Best exchange of the entire film. Along with, "The word, sir?" "The word is no. I am therefore going anyway."
EDIT: Actually, you know what? To drive this back to PIC, I think Picard might be channeling Kirk from TSFS a little bit in this series.
Anyway, moving on, I actually think a Star Trek show dealing with the Post Brexit, Post Trump world is more interesting to me than trying to recreate the feel of TNG with this show.
Not just that, but a bit of Spock too from "Unification." Picard gave Spock a hard time for his "cowboy diplomacy" of trying to start the underground reunification effort. Seems like Picard is also going off on his own cowboy diplomacy adventure.
I'm not sure if politics is exactly what has them upset. Like mentioned before Trek has always explored social issues. The word I hear used a lot is "Current year politics." Basically anything specifically dealing with the real life politics in modern society instead of taking a less specific look at issues. Basically if a show is exploring a issue like lets say how you would explore racism in 2005 instead of how it has been done in 2020 they hate it. Unless it's going after something they like such as RIcky Gervais taking down PC stuff then they love it.
To me I sort of understand why they might get upset at times because a great deal of this stuff hasn't been explored in a very subtle way and their is also the issue over saturation. I mean how many times can you explore Trump anyways before it gets repetitive. My biggest issue is not really the politics stuff or even the woke stuff either because I don't really like it when a show feels preachy either. It's the forced diversity complaints that bug me. Some of them get upset anytime a girl shows up in a story it seems. Not only that but they kind of joy seeing something fail like say the "Charlies Angels." To me that movie I got to say looks like crap IMO but at the same time I don't like the idea of celebrating someone's failure just because I don't like a movie. It's very mean. Also the homophobia is even worst. While the rank and file republican isn't as bigoted as they use to be to women and people of color, provided they aren't liberals IMO but many of them haven't moved a iota on LGBTQ people.
Star Trek, when speaking in regards to its social commentary, does best when it challenges people. Talk about the Shatner-Nichols kiss or “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” or “Past Tense.” These are shows that put a light on sensitive issues. It’s pretty unlikely the new series will directly reference Trump or Brexit but perhaps the message is less about them directly and more about those things that tear us apart. The issue of unwarranted fear from those that are different than us. Because that’s a good Trekian message right there.
I agree but I think one thing we are also seeing from the backlash is the lost of being able to spread social commentary over many different episodes a year. This is something nobody talks about it but even though modern Trek is doing social commentary it's not really exploring many actual issues. Picard fore example will go after Brexit and I guess Trump. Back in the day DS9 could have done that then also talked about social media,the environment,mental illness,cancer, drug addiction,socialism and many more issues if they wanted and then do like 6 to 10 episodes that are just character stuff or dumb fun.
It's much different saying we are doing 10 episodes and they are just going to be about these 2 things. Maybe 3 if we talking about depression with Picard. Maybe 4 with slavery with the androids. It's still not touching the surface of how Trek could say so many different things and how it wasn't also held back in exploring those issues by having to sort of connect them with each other because your doing a story arc.
I actually think Picard is going to be a good show. I sort of sense it. But we need to accept the show is likely going to be about exploring 2020 instead of taking a more timeless exploration of the human condition that it has done in the past. Also if that is something we want to be the point of ever show or do we want to go back to stand alone stuff once awhile and being able to talk all the issues again or do we want a Mandolorian in the mix that is all about fun and not weighed down by the weight of the world. I got to say if they want to make Trek into a MCU(again) then I hope they know you can't have 5 shows all be about the exact same issues or people will get bored and to be honest I think people have already started to get bored already because we have been dealing with Trump and Brexit for like 4 years now. That's a lot of social commentarian going on in those 4 years and their is a thing about over saturation. Especially in this day and age when people's attention span has gotten shorter and people are always looking for the next new big thing to talk about.
There is too much ad hominem arguments against those we disagree with online. And some straw mans too. I get why Discovery fans don't like ME, they rip on the show constantly and report doom and gloom news for the franchise with glee. I did watch that video. I thought ME stated his concern over Patrick Stewart's comments reasonably, just like posters have done in this thread. I don't agree with everything he said but I get where he is coming from. We live in a hyper politicized, polarized, and divided time.
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