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CaptainGold said:
But if he felt that strongly about it, or if Starfleet Command felt so strongly about the secrecy of it, then someway would have been found to make sure the colonists don't get to the planet. If it's that important, the colony couldn't say no like they did. The Federation can't survive if it doesn't.
And how exactly would the Federation do that? The UFP didn't own that planet, or have a legal claim to it. The colonists wanted to start their own sovereign society, and they had every right to do so under interstellar law. It's not as though the UFP could just waltz in and force them out.
Further, if I recall the novel correctly, the Feds didn't even know that there was Shedai tech on that world until the colony was already there. Really, the only way that Starfleet could have saved the colony would have been to violate orders and divulge classified data to civilians -- and to non-Federate civilians at that!
I rather liked, from a dramatic standpoint, the fact that Starfleet just completely failed with regards to the colony in Reap the Whirlwind. In real life, real militaries and governments, even if they have the best of intentions, sometimes completely and utterfly fail the people that they're supposed to protect and serve (witness the failure to effectively plan for the Iraq War and its aftermath), and while I agree with and appreciate ST's desire to depict a better future, I think it's fundamentally dishonest not to portray large organizations as sometimes failing miserably. I can very easily see the disaster in RtW as being the sort of thing that would sully Starfleet's name and lead to the cynical view that many people have of it (eg, Ira Graves in Immortal Coil, Councillor Tomorak in Articles of the Federation).
It just seems to be a shame that Reyes mentally breaks here, it never came across to me as a Starfleet version of the Pentagon Papers as it was intended. Otherwise he finds a way somehow to stay out of the situation with the colony in the first place.
I think your argument that there was ever any choice other than to divulge classified info or allow the Shedai to do to the colonists as they would is flawed. It really was that simple of a choice -- the only way you can stop the colony from going there is to tell them the truth.
David Mack said:
^ No, I had never heard of that game; I named the animal-plant hybrid species by looking up the Latin root word for "broccoli" and tweaking it slightly. Any similarity to another fictional creation was coincidental and unintended.
Sci said:
In real life, real militaries and governments, even if they have the best of intentions, sometimes completely and utterly fail the people that they're supposed to protect and serve (witness the failure to effectively plan for the Iraq War and its aftermath), and while I agree with and appreciate ST's desire to depict a better future, I think it's fundamentally dishonest not to portray large organizations as sometimes failing miserably.
That particular example is due more to remarkable incompetence, arrogance, and malfeasance than best intentions. The senior generals knew what they were doing; the civilians who overrode their orders did not. Pearl Harbor and the failure of the Maginot Line are probably more apt.
Sci said:
In real life, real militaries and governments, even if they have the best of intentions, sometimes completely and utterly fail the people that they're supposed to protect and serve (witness the failure to effectively plan for the Iraq War and its aftermath), and while I agree with and appreciate ST's desire to depict a better future, I think it's fundamentally dishonest not to portray large organizations as sometimes failing miserably.
That particular example is due more to remarkable incompetence, arrogance, and malfeasance than best intentions. The senior generals knew what they were doing; the civilians who overrode their orders did not. Pearl Harbor and the failure of the Maginot Line are probably more apt.
Oh, I dunno. I'm reading State of Denial: Bush At War, Part III, and if it's to be trusted, there's a lot of blame to spread around, including within the Armed Forces themselves.
^ True. But I was thinking of the senior Army generals (Shinseki particularly) who warned first against the war, then against the plan for the war when it became clear that war would be waged. The corps of generals loyal to the nation but not the President's political faction were largely cleared out for their efforts on behalf of the country. Even General Teguba was fired for trying to get the bottom of Abu Ghraib.
David, just finished RtW and a I had a few comments...
First off, excellent continuation of the series...started a little slow at first and once I got over my initial "Where's Desai?" and "Where's Quinn and Pennington?" afflictions, I realized there was a fully realized little yarn developing here.
OBVIOUS SMALL SPOILERS ABOUND BELOW! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!
For the most part, this is a novel that largely involves the Sagitarrius and its close-knit crew. You've succeeded in giving us an interesting mini cast of characters that are truly interesting, David. I am genuinely concerned for each and every one of them.
The Shedai attack scenes are wonderful and horrific all at the same time - some of the most gruesome in all of known Trek in my opinion. I love old Godzilla movies and of course, Forbidden Planet, so these scenes of gigantic killing machines (or clouds :thumbsup hoarding over the masses are very cool for me. It fits perfectly with the feel of TOS.
Kudos for the continued inclusion of Clark Terrell and the "introduction" of
Dr. Carol Marcus!! TWOK being my favorite of all time, this is icing on the cake AND her inclusion makes perfect sense too!
And I know a lot of people talk about the finale being a big shocker when:
Reyes allows the secret to get out and is arrested
...but my favorite shocker moment came just before that when
Lurqa's ship is bombed and T'Prynn suffers in agony at watching her lover die before her eyes. Very haunting......a definite "Whoa" moment after witnessing T'Prynn's downfall.
Good stuff!
Lastly, an earlier post suggested Alyson Hannigan for Theirault, and while she is a good choice, how about Lindy Booth of 4400 and Dawn of the Dead fame instead? She fits the bill right? ALso, did anyone else picture Yul Bryner as Captain Nassir of the Sagitarrius? I don't know why, I just kept coming abck to him while reading those sections.
Anyway, thanks again, David. You're still up there at the top of my list. What's next for you, by the way?
^ I still prefer Alyson Hannigan. (No offense to fans of Lindy Booth.)
As far as what's next, I can say I have a new Trek project in the works, but the editors have not yet announced the details. I expect that more information will be available in mid-July, following Shore Leave (July 13-15). Until then...mum's the word.
I'm glad you enjoyed Reap the Whirlwind --- thanks for your comments!
Just a brief note to say how much I enjoyed this book. I just finished it the other day. Very well done. I enjoyed how one can really feel that the Starfleet crews were in genuine danger throughout the book, plus the T'Prynn storyline keeps getting better and better. Looking forward to your next installment.
When Jeanne is killed and (although I can't find the exact verbatim passage) she is suddenly overcome by the Shedai and is cut to pieces in "a whirlwind of blows."
I love a writer who can do that sort of thing well. :thumbsup:
I finished the book on Friday and all I have to say is that it was a-frekin-mazing, everything about it was great. It was deffinitely one of the all time best Trek books written, and cements David's position as one of my favorite Trek writers (I include all of Trekdom in that statement). I'm dieing to see what happens next, because there was so much stuff set up at the end like
Reyes's arrest, T'Prynn's coma, Carol Marcus, the Klingon's casket and the Shedai being all over the place now.
I cannot wait to see who this stuff plays out in the next book(s). Great work David.
hoarding over the masses are very cool for me. It fits perfectly with the feel of TOS.
