Vance's Schematics II

[Vance]

Irishman said:
I hear you Vance, I had my own struggle with plagiarism a long time ago, but was able to put it past me. It's tough.

It's bizzare, though, since the toolkits have so few restrictions, that people would STILL ignore them. And, as someone else said, they're pretty distinctive. It's not like it's not OBVIOUS when someone's lifting.

Usually, though, these things come back around on the infringer - the moment when it's obvious that they're UNABLE to do their own work.

 

[Wingsley]

How come there are no "dishless" versions of FJ's Constitution and Federation?

 

[Vance]

'Cause I'm mean that way!

Either that or the 'dishless' variants of the two classes have already been done as other classes?

One of the two, I'm sure.

 

[hellsgate]

I've already given it a go. Please don't laugh.

 

[Kaiser]

Looks good to me and the Backround Storys are cool

 

[aridas sofia]

It's amazing how much that "Vancouver-A" looks like the Belknap.

 

[Vance]

Hmm.. can't see it. It's possible he wasn't aware of the Belknap, I guess.. but, really, all those ships are credited on this thread. :S

 

[darkwing_duck1]

hellsgate said:
I've already given it a go. Please don't laugh. *image links removed*

Try Photobucket...no bandwidth restrictions...I use it.

 

[aridas sofia]

Vance said:
Hmm.. can't see it. It's possible he wasn't aware of the Belknap, I guess.. but, really, all those ships are credited on this thread. :S

Someone has taken the Belknap, copied it line for line, and is claiming that after editing two very minor details, the design is theirs. If it is wrong for your "toolkits" of designs other people made and that you have redrawn to be stolen, then it is wrong for the designs themselves to be stolen.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

aridas sofia said:

Vance said:
Hmm.. can't see it. It's possible he wasn't aware of the Belknap, I guess.. but, really, all those ships are credited on this thread. :S

Someone has taken the Belknap, copied it line for line, and is claiming that after editing two very minor details, the design is theirs. If it is wrong for your "toolkits" of designs other people made and that you have redrawn to be stolen, then it is wrong for the designs themselves to be stolen.

Yep, that's a Belknap with a few extra "greebles" all right...I'm a novice "image basher", but even I know better than to be that big of a copycat.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

aridas sofia said:

Someone has taken the Belknap, copied it line for line, and is claiming that after editing two very minor details, the design is theirs. If it is wrong for your "toolkits" of designs other people made and that you have redrawn to be stolen, then it is wrong for the designs themselves to be stolen.

...and the Belknap itself is just a rearrangement of slightly altered Constitution (refit) parts. No need to start a war over this.

 

[Vance]

No no, I'm fully aware of the Belknap, what I meant was that I couldn't see his images. But, yes, that's clearly the Belknap with Jackill's sensor-pod on the primary hull.

Like I said, though, he may not be aware of the Belknap's origins or something, so just politely point out that it's your ship design, lightly modified. Try to give the benefit of the doubt first until you explicitly have reason not to.

Edit: But, yes, that's too much of a lift, and against the spirit of the Toolkits, to say nothing that the Belknap's secondary hull isn't even PART of a Toolkit in the first place. The 'Vancouver' needs removed.

 

[USS Jack Riley]

[/QUOTE]
Mind if I take this one?

[/QUOTE]

Why thank you sir!! You even included images for me to follow so that my graphically oriented mind can follow the directions!!! Much better than, "first ya gotta move this doohickey, hit 'ctrl' 'alt' 'del' in sequential order and then thpe 'format c:' and you are all done." I hate step by step instructions like that (I guess that is why I enjoy building solid models over 3D stuff - that and the lack of time to learn a new skill).

Thanks again sir.

 

[aridas sofia]

Sean_McCormick said:

aridas sofia said:

Someone has taken the Belknap, copied it line for line, and is claiming that after editing two very minor details, the design is theirs. If it is wrong for your "toolkits" of designs other people made and that you have redrawn to be stolen, then it is wrong for the designs themselves to be stolen.

...and the Belknap itself is just a rearrangement of slightly altered Constitution (refit) parts. No need to start a war over this.

First off, it's not my design. It's Todd Guenther's. But I will reserve the right to start a war when I think a war is necessary. And the fact is, nobody had imagined anything like that arrangement of parts before he did -- it presaged the lowering of the nacelles evident in Probert's designs that led to the 1701-D. And the connection to the belly of the secondary hull is still unusual, yet effective. To call it a simple "rearrangement of slightly altered Constitution (refit) parts" is not only irrelevant and incorrect, but unfair. Post some of your own art and we'll claim them for our own, Sean. Then we'll take note of the presence or absence of righteous indignation.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Sean_McCormick said:

aridas sofia said:

Someone has taken the Belknap, copied it line for line, and is claiming that after editing two very minor details, the design is theirs. If it is wrong for your "toolkits" of designs other people made and that you have redrawn to be stolen, then it is wrong for the designs themselves to be stolen.

...and the Belknap itself is just a rearrangement of slightly altered Constitution (refit) parts. No need to start a war over this.

You obviously don't understand how "intellectual property rights" work. To the extent that the Belknap is an ORIGINAL work on the part of it's original author, the rights to it belong to him/her ALONE.

 

[Vance]

Aridas, decaf, now!

I don't think anyone's mean spirited. But you have to admit, just about ALL 'fanon' designs are derivative. So it's a bit disingeuous to claim that you, I, Todd, or even Franz Joseph did this all 'on their own'. We're contributors... let's keep that in mind.

That said, it's unethical, at least, not to give credit where credit is actually due, and the lifting of the Belknap is obviously too much to claim as 'original'. That said, I don't think offense was meant (since he hasn't replied), and a 'friendly' correction is still possible.

Edit: I can't type...

 

[aridas sofia]

So it's a bit disingeuous to claim that you, I, Todd, or even Franz Joseph did this all 'on their own'. We're contributors... let's keep that in mind.

You keep saying this, and it is still just as irrelevant. If I rearrange the parts of someone else's intellectual property, it's an original work of art. It is still obviously a derivative work of art, but it is just as original as Aaron Copland quoting "Simple Gifts" in "Appalachian Spring" or Thomas Jefferson quoting William Kent, Inigo Jones, Andrea Palladio and others at Monticello. Hell, Warhol painted a can of Campbell's Soup and it is original art. He didn't claim the design as his own -- he claimed the fine art treatment of a pedestrian, consumer object as his own. There's nothing "disingenuous" about that, but there is something disingenuous about not acknowledging the parentage of your art. What Todd or you or I do is obviously derivative of Trek, and its very existence is statement of that fact. But taking that process of deriving art from former art and then claiming it as your own... there's the problem.

Amazing that I finally became an admiral with yet another post clarifying my views on this subject. And I'd hoped it might be yet another post about how I think TMP is underrated...

 

[Vance]

Well, obviously TMP is overrated, so there's your problem right there.

But, seriously, I'm just saying to relax a little bit. It's okay (as we've said) to correct him and all, but you don't need to jump into the fray with guns blazing when maybe a more polite and friendly gesture will do.

 

[Kaiser]

so making these into a Vance style schematic could be bad taste now? Please let me know i want to see if i could and then post a design that is sorta a mix of the 2 here on a non-Trek forum.

 

[Kaiser]

and btw Mr. Vance if i will follow your rules and make sure to credit you and put the link of your site on my sig in the other forum