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Valkyrie - Discussion, Grading, Commentary ***SPOILERS***

What is your grade for VALKYRIE

  • A+

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • A

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • A-

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • B+

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • B

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • B-

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • C+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • C

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • C-

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • D+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • D

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • D-

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • F

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
On Sunday the History Channel had a very informative 2 hour documentary about the real events of the film. Covering earlier assassination plots against Hitler and the aftermath of this. Showing it was not until the mid 1950s until that West Germans began to see these men as heroic. Creating the only WWII memorial to German soldiers in all of Germany in their honor. Most interesting of all, Stauffenberg's son was interviewed. The one whom his wife was pregnant with when he was executed.

I imagine they will rerun it. Its worth checking out if you liked the movie.
 
So, I was halfway into the movie, when Tom Cruise's Stauffenberg confronts Eddie Izzard in the bathroom, and I was pretty into the movie and...the power goes out.

In all my moviegoing experience, this is the first time that happened. They gave us "rain checks", basically acting in the same fashion as a refund, it gives you an "admit one" to any film (as long as it is a Cinemark theater), but it is still highly annoying.

The part of the movie I saw, though, was pretty good.
 
I had the power go out during Planet of the Apes (Whalberg edition) way back when but it came back up after about 30 mins and they just resumed. It was a little jarring.
Sucks cause I know you're a huge Singer guy and been wanting to see this. Hope you get back to it soon as you can.
 
The totals as of Monday are in and the film has a total of $33.5m
What I find most interesting is the now reported budget of the film, $75m.

Its possible the reports of it being around $100m were off and that the rehoots and reedits over the last year taking it to $115m+ were wrong. Its rare but it happens. However usually the disparity isn't that great. I wonder if somehow the books aren't being handled in a unique fashion on this one.
 
The question isn't what made Stauffenberg turn. The real question is what kept the others loyal.

To Hitler? The fear of immediate execution? Indoctrination into the NAZI ideology at a young age? Fear of what the allies would do to them once the war was over? Much of which is discussed in the film.

Or to the conspiracy? In which case, you see this explored a great deal in the film.

And the question of whether Cruise is still a big star isn't that interesting. It is depressing to reflect that millions of people somehow think Cruise is crazier than other believers.

Indoctrinated into a religion that is relatively new without large numbers of followers or widespread cultural influence, a religion reportedly created as a pyramid scheme on a bet no less, and indoctrinated into it at as an adult rather than a child. Throw in some unwanted couch jumping publicity that other stars are better at avoiding, and its easy to see where the belief that he's crazy comes from. But I see your point, and, quietly, so all the loudmouthed believers don't hear, agree with you. ;)

--

Which doesn't really matter to me. I thought Cruise was fine in this film. Yes, he's basically playing the same part he's always played, but that's too be expected from a Hollywood establishment star (see: Mel Gibson, etc.). And he manages to fit into the role fairly well. The accent didn't bother me, either (the film even has the obligatory transition from German to English, and all written items in the film are still in German).

What is problematic here is pacing. And I can't even figure out what the problem is. All I know is that it felt wickedly inconsistent when I was in the theatre. I'm not sure if its the script, or the editing, or both, but the film felt off. Still, the pacing isn't off by a huge margin--just a large enough one that you'll sometimes notice. All in all, a good thriller.

B+
 
I had the power go out during Planet of the Apes (Whalberg edition) way back when but it came back up after about 30 mins and they just resumed. It was a little jarring.
Sucks cause I know you're a huge Singer guy and been wanting to see this. Hope you get back to it soon as you can.

Thanks. I'm hoping to find time either today or tomorrow.
 
I tend to have projection problems on Christmas Day. My extended family usually got together on Christmas Eve. So for my parents, brother, sister and I its a big tradition to see a movie on Christmas Day.

I can think of 4 or 5 times over the years in which we got free passes. On normal opening days the projectionists are able to do a trial screening the night before. Allowing them to properly calibrate it.

No problems with Valkyrie though. I am glad you are getting a chance to see the full film soon Jackson.
 
I had to chuckle at seeing Thomas Kretschmann in yet another Nazi movie, the poor typecast bastard! :lol:

Speaking of typecast anybody else noticed that Christian Berkel is also in this movie. He played the bald colonel who is also an explosives expert.

Berkel has played a SS doctor in Der Untergang, a SS general in Zwartboek and probably at least a dozen other Nazi characters. Every time I've seen him onscreen he was playing a Nazi!
 
The power went out when my best friend and a friend of his went to see it the day before we went to see. They got rain checks...the power went out about an hour into the film for them!
 
^^^^
Did you go to the same Chicago movie house Jackson went to by chance?


Valkyrie is performing decent. Its now got a take of $60m after two full weeks in release. Its shot at $100m could be helped I think by the Daniel Craig film Defiance opening in a week or so. It too is an untold WWII story about defying the German Reich. Or it could hurt it and be viewed has competing vs augmenting.
 
Just got back from it and I'd say a B+. Very solid film. My only question was why it took so long to make. Spielberg would have made this film in about a month.

Great story. I saw a similar film called Night of the Generals from the 60s. I thought Cruise was great, as was Bill Nighy. It's amazing how they just needed better explosives and more people to go with the flow of the coup to succeed.
 
Well I finally saw the film in its entirety today and I will agree with most others that it is a pretty solid film. I would rate it a B+, or give it ***, as well as my friend who saw it with me. We were both impressed, especially since in his close circles he had heard negative sentiments regarding the film, and I had read a mixed reception from most critics.

I would have to agree with JKTim over the second act. I thought it was slightly sluggish and not nearly as entertaining or engaging as the first act (and the rousing opening set piece set in Africa, which I heard was a last minute addition that Singer shot when they did re-shoots, and I'm glad he did, because it's exactly the type of opening this film needed) or the third act, which is the best part of the film. I think if anything the writing could have been tighter or some scenes where we see Stauffenberg creating Operation Valkyrie and assembling the "team" could have been cut, since it slows the film down. My friend did not share my sentiments, which I don't know is a good or bad thing, or whether or not I'm being nitpicky here.

However, everything else I was very impressed with. Bryan Singer is a stylish director, one who knows how to work with actors, set up a story and focus on the nuances that make characters feel believable and real. He's also talented at crafting a superb thriller. I feel like he hasn't done a real thriller since The Usual Suspects and while Valkyrie isn't as clever a film, it has more depth and substance by making the characters feel real, with flaws and traits, which only adds to the emotionalism of the climax. By this film's end, you're fully invested in the characters. Tom Cruise, Bill Nighy, Terrence Stamp, and others all do incredible work. If anything, I was surprised by the small roles of Eddie Izzard and Kenneth Branaugh, especially.

I was actually kind of suprised by John Ottman's score as well. I'll definitely be getting it. I was half-expecting a sort of lush, orchestral, "time period" score, but instead I heard a distinctively modern, edgy work. I liked it a lot, and I felt it really added to the proceedings without becoming melodramatic or overstating.

Side-topic: To answer Barbados Slim's question, the reason why it took so long to make are a couple of reasons. One, it took a long time to convince Germany to even let the production film in Berlin and utilize the real locations that were featured in the film (because of Tom Cruise and his ties to Scientology, which are looked down upon by Germany). Two, Singer did everything real. The airplanes, the locations, the set pieces, everything was done as naturalistically as possible without the usage of CGI. Third, footage got destroyed which required Singer and Co. to re-shoot numerous sequences. Singer also allowed this to reconceptualize certain elements, and re-craft the film after earlier negative advance screenings. Add all of those things up, as well as MGM constantly delaying or pushing the film back, and there you go.
 
Great story. I saw a similar film called Night of the Generals from the 60s. I thought Cruise was great, as was Bill Nighy. It's amazing how they just needed better explosives and more people to go with the flow of the coup to succeed.

To be fair the movie didn't do a stellar job of showing how disorganized and incompetent the Berlin portion of the coup actually was. The arrests shown in the movie might as well represent what happened in Paris on that afternoon where General von Stuelpnagel successfully rounded up all 1200 of Paris' S.S. and S.D. personnel. In Berlin the picture was completely the opposite. By 6 pm the only place in the city that Stauffenberg, Beck, Olbricht and co had control of was the Bendlerstrasse i.e. their own headquarter! Some historians think that if Olbricht (Nighy) and Stauffenberg had proceeded with the same energy and meticulous planning that Stuelpnagel showed in Paris then the coup might've been a success even without the death of Hitler. Hell they had the backing of the Berlin police force so a couple of policemen could've arrested Goebbels without Major Remer (Thomas Kretschmann) ever entering the picture. They also inexplicably never gave out any orders to seize all the communications assets in the Berlin area.

Oh yeah my grade for the movie was a solid B-. I was hoping more for a documentary rather than a thriller but all is well since I saw a good mix of both.
 
I loved the movie. The only thing I didn't like was the ending but we have no one but history to blame for that.;)

I got very tied up in the intricacies of the plot. Even though I knew they wouldn't succeed, I found it a very plausible hope that they would.

The cast really sells this movie for me. Even though I too sometimes find Tom Cruise's personal life antics a bit much, I've never allowed that to taint my view of his performances. (Even at the height of "Couch-gate" in the summer of 2005, I'd still say that his performance was one of the few saving graces of War of the Worlds.) Cruise is a strong lead here. Bill Nighy is absolute aces in everything he does. Tom Wilkinson & Terrence Stamp give strong supporting performances. This movie also has a lot of, "Wait, wait, where do I know him from?" actor moments. It took me several minutes to recognize Mr. Mercer from Pirates of the Caribbean and I couldn't place Mr. Gibbs at all until I saw McNally's name in the end credits.
 
I am allergic to Scientology and to most Hollywood WW2 movies.

So I don't think I'll ever see this one, not for a million dollars would I watch this ****.

Poor Stauffenberg will be turning over in his grave!
 
^ You just scared him away from his next post, which was going to be "Buttafucco" several times.
 
Very good. The movie could be read as claiming that Olbricht (Bill Nighy) messed up while leaving it open to see Stauffernberg (Cruise) made the key error. But the movie is clear that the Berlin operation was a failure.

It was also good on the diversity of motives amongst the plotters, both highminded and self-interested.

The pacing problems in my opinion were due to adherence to fact. The failure of Stauffenberg's attempt introduces an early anticlimax, not a ratcheting of tension. Screenwriters are notorious for rewriting history so that it plays better on screen. It seems we really expect variations on the old stories rather than genuine realism. Indeed, we are so dominated by our stylistic expectations that we can reject it because it so ungainly and unartistic.
 
The pacing problems in my opinion were due to adherence to fact. The failure of Stauffenberg's attempt introduces an early anticlimax, not a ratcheting of tension. Screenwriters are notorious for rewriting history so that it plays better on screen. It seems we really expect variations on the old stories rather than genuine realism. Indeed, we are so dominated by our stylistic expectations that we can reject it because it so ungainly and unartistic.

What's weird is that the movie after that point worked for me. Watching the plan come together, yet unravel at the same time was entertaining and tightly paced from the bombing to the very end. It was the pacing earlier in the movie that seemed to be inconsistent. But I'd have to see the film again to make any judgment, because all I have left a few weeks after seeing the film is a feeling of inconsistent pacing rather than a concrete example of it.

And it would certainly be difficult if not impossible to deny cultural expectations of style and convention in cinema, of which this film is rife.
 
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