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V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discussion

Grading

  • Excellent

    Votes: 6 11.5%
  • Above average

    Votes: 26 50.0%
  • Average

    Votes: 15 28.8%
  • Below average

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • Poor

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    52
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I gave this one a C-

Conceptually, I like its cautionary message about blind devotion and being easily seduced by something new and whatnot. But the rest of the show is so steeped in fear, paranoia and xenophobia that it simply cannot be taken seriously as a legitimate exploration of these ideas.

Plus, as others have noted, the plot zips along way too fast. I wouldn't know the names of any characters without looking them up on imdb. The conspiracy theory/investigative angles are pedestrian at best (not to mention cliche). It isn't terrible ... but it sure leaves a whole lot to be desired.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

Watching this show, I now completely understand why ABC put it on hiatus after four episodes. If I were an ABC exec watching these episodes, I would've said "holy shit, this is awful, we're screwed". The whole thing is just... off. I can't even figure out what this show is supposed to be about at its core. I guess it's about a resistance forming to fight the Visitors, but the Visitors haven't even done anything that sinister yet.

Agreed. I wasn't a huge fan of previous shows like Invasion, Surface, or Threshold, but at least they all had a clear point of view and some decent plot development.

The writing here is just incredibly sloppy and simplistic. I would say it feels like something Braga was in charge of, but he's actually doing some decent work over on Flashforward now.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I give this one a B. The pilot was excellent, but the blonde mother is quickly becoming annoying and it already feels like they're losing steam on the plot. Not good for a show that's only two episodes in.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I just wonder if they're going to maintain the proper size ratio when we start seeing the Visitors in their natural form. Considering how thick their meat suits are, they're going to have to be really, really scrawny, tiny-headed, long-limbed fuckers. Probably getting a pretty good daily workout from lugging around those fat suits, too.

I wonder how the hell they disguise their teeth?! :wtf:
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

This show needs some Michael Ironside. Stat!

They should cast him as the US President.

Only if he gets to yell "Die Anna!" like someone here suggested Marc Singer should do when he makes an inevitable cameo. :)

i suggested it with Jane Badler...but anyone form the original series would do. But it would be a kamimaze mission, unfortunately...
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

You know what would have made this episode an awesome episode?

Where was Lou Dobbs talking about the aliens coming to steal our jobs?

Too bad it's not on Fox then maybe Glenn Beck could have went all crazy ass and appeared ;)


Well, Lou Dobbs just stepped down from CNN...maybe he's getting redy for his ABC debut?
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

My favorite part. "What, you work here‽" "What, You're a Priest‽" in walks a Cylon.

A priest, a lizard and a Cylon walk into a bar...

Pretty good second outing. Okay, did anyone NOT know that the final image of this episode would be Lizard Wash's oh-so-surprising resurrection? :rommie: The foreshadowing was more obvious than a frakkin' mothership hovering over midtown Manhattan. Very middlebrow entertainment, but so far, I'm intrigued.

Not much else to comment on, plotwise, so I'll pick on the characters.

Love

Father Jack - Casting Joel Gretsch against type as slightly cowed man of peace instead of his usual ass-kicking type has really paid off. I find myself highly sympathetic to his desire to just go on with his life and not get sucked into anything scary and violent, which is at odds with his entire life philosophy, yet unable to just stand aside and do nothing.

Plus it's cute the way the writers are creating a Mulder & Scully dynamic between him and Erica, knowing full well the guy is a priest, naughty naughty. ;) Okay not so much yet, but we all know where this is going.

Fun fact that I just learned on IMDB: Grestch is William Shatner's son-in-law! :bolian:

Like

Erica - Elizabeth Mitchell is doing a competent job as an FBI ass-kicker, but Gretsch is really the soul of this show. I like the little core team of "opposites" they're forming.

Anna - A cardboard role, and it's doubtful it will ever be much beyond that (wouldn't serve the story) but Baccarin is doing the best possible cardboard role. How does she make fluttering her eyelashes look so evil? :rommie:

Chad - Oh wow, if ever a guy was headed off a cliff, it's Chad. He actually thinks he can go toe-to-toe with the V's. This is gonna be fun. (But he's not quite slimy enough for me to root for something really awful to happen - instead, I hope he'll just learn a lesson the hard way and find his way to Erica & Father Jack's team.)

Marcus - Not a major character but as Anna's right-claw man, he matches her for restrained malevolence and natty satorial style. (Kudos to the costuming department for the V's wardrobe - they've done a nice job creating clothes that aliens would adopt if they wanted to try to mimic human clothing and didn't quite succeed in not looking alien).

Wait & See

Dale - With an actor like Alan Tudyk, I am really really really hoping for something beyond just a straight "terminator" act. Let's see what the guy is really like - if he's an alien psycho, fine, but there's got to be more to him than just that. He could make up for my disappointment with Ryan (see below).

Misfire

Ryan - The "traitor V in hiding" really should be a breakout role, the kind that steals the show. Why is Ryan so dull? There's no excuse. Unlike the other scenes with V's, where they are either putting on an act for hew-mons or just being stiff and bwahaha in their inner sanctum, the scene with Ryan and his fellow traitor buddy should have been a chance to show them being, you know, alien.

At least a little! Maybe their lack of nations signifies that they have more of an insectoid-type hive culture, and individualism and treason is actually very difficult for them. Show us how they differ from humans and start giving us hints about why they decided to turn traitor anyway.

Also, Ryan is a stupid name for an alien. Don't ask me why. :rommie: It just is.

Tyler - Our very own Wesley Crusher (his buddy is Jar-Jar). Will some V just please eat his brain already.

Hardly Register

Lisa, Valerie - Nothing more than boring "girlfriend" roles so far.
I nodded off toward the end, was there some shocking scene or something? The last thing I remember was the mechanic telling Ryan all about his fiance. Could someone fill me in on what happened afterward?
Alan Tudyk (Dale) woke up in a pod on the mothership, right on schedule. Bwahaha! Now he will go seek his sudden but inevitable revenge on Erica and all the other hew-mons.

The numbers are out, the episode got 10 million viewers, versus 13 or 14 million last week. I'm amazed they held onto so much of the audience from the pilot.
I'm not surprised. It's nice, unchallenging, middlebrow entertainment. If ABC doesn't screw it up with idiotic scheduling, it could have a run of 3-4 years which is all I'd really want from this premise anyway.

I guess it's about a resistance forming to fight the Visitors, but the Visitors haven't even done anything that sinister yet.
It's like they've decided that the audience knows the V's are evil and don't have to show it. A smarter show might play around with the idea that the V's could be blameless and Erica and the others are just being paranoid.

There's simply no time to get invested in the characters. At all. I can't even think of a single character's name other than Anna, and that's not a good sign.

The kid is a great example. "See, this kid's a loser. BAM! He's now got confidence and a sense of right and wrong, but we the audience know it's misplaced! Character development, bitches! Okay, next we have..."

:rommie: It's all Heroes fault. The V producers have read us bitching about how the show goes in circles and the characters never go anywhere, so they're determined not to make that mistake. Plotting at lightspeed!
 
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Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I have no problem with "how fast" this series is unfolding.

Maybe it is because I have seen all of the original V material in it's first run and I feel no need for prolonged exposition.

Anyways, I think that so far this series is a competent and coherent sci-fi show that is worth enjoying.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

Temis, you're pretty good with your analyses on shows but I have to disagree with you on Ryan. I mean the point with his character, IMO, is to show how human he is. So, I wouldn't expect to see him acting all alien. I think he wants to put that part of his life behind him or try to assimilate as best as possible as a human.

I don't see how he is any more 'dull' than Willie or Martin, his old school counterparts on the original V. Plus, I'm enjoying his inner conflict and I'm looking forward to seeing how things turn out with him and his fiance. I think that relationship has more feeling in it than any other on the show.

I also don't think Ryan sounds any dumber for an alien name than Anna or Lisa or Dale. Ryan is perfect below-the-radar, which is what a sleeper agent is supposed to be.

Thanks for telling me about Dale's resurrection though. I had nodded off during the end and now I see I didn't miss much because that was pretty telegraphed.

As for the other characters, I think the Priest is all right. The FBI agent doesn't do anything for me. The actress is competent enough but she's not setting the stage on fire or anything. Could do without her teenage son. I wish at least they had made him more like Daniel from the original. Regarding Chad, I thought he was going to cave in so its going to interesting to see how he tries to game the Vs from here on in. So far, I think the Vs are doing okay characterwise.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I'm really liking Joel Gretsch as Jack. I think him and Elizabeth Mitchell have good chemistry together.

I would say it feels like something Braga was in charge of, but he's actually doing some decent work over on Flashforward now.

A little off topic, but Braga isn't showrunner of Flash Forward (at the moment it's Marc Guggenheim, but soon it'll be David Goyer). Braga is currently executive producer on season 8 of 24.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

Networks really need to quality control their pilot and early scripts better. The high initial ratings showed that the property and premise had enough draw for people to give it a shot, which is half the battle. They could have had a LOST like hit had they produced an awesome mind-blowing pilot.

I really feel like they chose the wrong show-runners from the get-go. I know a lot of people liked The 4400, i always felt like it had a dull feel around it and would not have survived on network television.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I wish that I'd remembered to record this show. I guess I could pick it up on hulu or something.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I just wonder if they're going to maintain the proper size ratio when we start seeing the Visitors in their natural form. Considering how thick their meat suits are, they're going to have to be really, really scrawny, tiny-headed, long-limbed fuckers. Probably getting a pretty good daily workout from lugging around those fat suits, too.

I wonder how the hell they disguise their teeth?! :wtf:

There was an episode of the original V, where Donavan and Julie go undercover aboard the mother ship. They get get caught and claim to be Vs who just look like Donovan and Julie. To prove this they pull off their human faces to show Lizards underneath. Then after the evils Vs leave they pull off the Lizard masks to show their true human faces!!!!
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

I mean the point with his character, IMO, is to show how human he is. So, I wouldn't expect to see him acting all alien.
It would be nice to see him struggling to be human, in a way that even his fiance doesn't notice but the audience does. This show is really lacking in subtleties like that - everything is just written on a flat, literal level. I like seeing those second and third levels that you find in truly well-written shows.

I don't see how he is any more 'dull' than Willie or Martin, his old school counterparts on the original V.
Okay, confession time. :D I do recall seeing the occasional episode of the original series, but not so I would remember who the heck Willie or Martin are. They might have been dull as dishwater but that doesn't mean Ryan is the character I'd want him to be for this show.

The high initial ratings showed that the property and premise had enough draw for people to give it a shot, which is half the battle.
Big drop-offs between the pilot and 2nd episode are pretty common in shows nowadays. I think it mainly indicates a successful marketing campaign - the pilot got artificially high numbers of people who were curious. I know I bail quickly on about half the shows I sample and I'm pretty selective about what I sample to begin with.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

There was an episode of the original V, where Donavan and Julie go undercover aboard the mother ship. They get get caught and claim to be Vs who just look like Donovan and Julie. To prove this they pull off their human faces to show Lizards underneath. Then after the evils Vs leave they pull off the Lizard masks to show their true human faces!!!!

I tried to find this on YouTube but couldn't. I only found a clip where they knocked out a couple aliens and replaced their faces with Donovan and Julie faces.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

There was an episode of the original V, where Donavan and Julie go undercover aboard the mother ship. They get get caught and claim to be Vs who just look like Donovan and Julie. To prove this they pull off their human faces to show Lizards underneath. Then after the evils Vs leave they pull off the Lizard masks to show their true human faces!!!!

I tried to find this on YouTube but couldn't. I only found a clip where they knocked out a couple aliens and replaced their faces with Donovan and Julie faces.

You can watch this episode for free (and it's completely legal) on TheWB.com:

http://www.thewb.com/shows/v/secret-underground/0c088967-927e-441f-9473-54f8216a19bb

If you want to see the scene that Nerys Myk described, skip ahead to the 22 minute mark. Watch for another 2 minutes. Cringe at how unbelievably stupid this show became.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

Temis,

Willie was a shy, nice alien played by Robert Englund (Freddy Kruger). He became involved with a human woman and later on became part of the resistance.

Martin was a member of the Fifth Column, dissident Vs opposed to the evil Vs plans.

I do agree that subtlety is not a strong point for this new show. I do see/sense the inner conflict with Ryan, where his fiance is concerned. It's probably handled just as well or better than it was with Willie on the original show. As for Martin, he was always opposed to Diana and John, so there wasn't much conflict there. His whole thing was trying not to get exposed while still trying to help out the humans as best he could.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

In the original series, did they ever explain why the rebel lizards were helping the humans? Or was that just assumed (they're nice lizards)? Because that's the assumption that I don't want made - what does "nice" mean for lizards? Why assume they have human value systems? It's mindless writing. It's okay if you want lizards who are on the human side, because that complicates things and adds to the drama, but think of some reason for it that's a bit more interesting than "they're exactly like humans."
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

^ If memory serves Martin (the Visitor sympathizer in the original) says something like: "Some of us do not agree with the Supreme Leader." So basically, the explanation is that some Visitors object to the plan and its moral and ethical implications. It worked within the context of the original show, but the motivations weren't developed very much beyond that.

At least, that's what I remember anyway.
 
Re: V: 1x02: "There Is No Normal Anymore" 11/10/09 - Grading & Discuss

Temis,

I think Sam hits it on the head. From what I recall, there wasn't much explanation beyond there being some Visitors opposed to the Leader's plans for Earth. I don't remember if the Fifth Column was fleshed out more in the short-lived first V TV series or not.
 
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