USS Voyager vs USS Bellerophon

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Trekboy1993, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    Basically they'd have to pay royalties; especially if they wanted to use the character again. IIRC, the novels can "speculate" that one character is simply an alias of another, especially when dealing with a secretive spy agency.
    Since "Koval" was produced in the staffroom rather than by a spec script; the character belongs to CBS and not the writer.
     
  2. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The writer of Mind's Eye was a DS9 staff writer, and still with them in season 7.

    Since the Character was never named, Royalties aren't a consideration, and since Koval only appears in one episode, royalties(if that were the case) wouldn't be a cause fir concern. As I said above, there are other returning Romulan characters in that episode, one of them from TNG season 5 and nowhere else.

    Tom Paris was only meant to be a character similar to Nick Locarno. It wasn't related to royalties as Robbie McNeal wasn't the original choice for the role. After failing to find a match for "Tom Paris," someone suggested just getting the original "Nick Locarno" They liked him, and he was cast.
     
  3. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    I think if the character is named in the script, even if not in dialog, royalties are still owed.
    They didn't end up using him again, but they could have - and royalties i believe are based on the number of times an episode is aired, which is why 90% of extras don't have speaking parts; they just nod and smile or whatnot.
     
  4. ItIsGreen

    ItIsGreen Captain Captain

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    I haven't seen "The Mind's Eye" in a while, but: If the character wasn't named in the final episode, can't we retrospectively assume it was Koval? I thought only what made it to the screen was considered canon anyhow. If the name in the script is never spoken in the episode, then what does it matter?

    Anyhow, it's not like he showed up in TNG again, it's a completely different group of people on a completely different ship in a completely different part of the galaxy at a completely different time so I'm not really on board with the 'small universe syndrome' argument.

    Besides which, I've seen some of the novels go to greater lengths to tie up minor continuity threads into big elaborate overcomplicated knots so I'm cool with it being this one Romulan dude we saw once before in the entire franchise.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We can assume whatever we want, but the character was named in the script and there's no indication that the writers of the latter episode intended Koval to be the same character seen in TME.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Hell, why don't we just assume that every character in Star Trek played by John Fleck is Silik the Suliban in various disguises on various assignments related to the Temporal Cold War? Is there anything in canon that says they aren't?
     
  7. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A straw man, like earlier.
     
  8. CommanderTrip

    CommanderTrip Captain Captain

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    I had a similar experience watching DS9/VOY when I first started watching Trek. It was around the time of DS9's final season and Voyager's 4th/5th season. I remember seeing "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" and thinking "Oh, cool. Voyager!" and then I realized what was going on. Same thing happened in the Season 7 DS9 episode "Field of Fire". For some reason, I always thought it was Harry Kim who was killed in the first act of the episode, and that they were doing some kind of crossover episode. Took me a while to realize they weren't the same person (and that Voyager was still in the Delta Quadrant)
     
  9. Verteron

    Verteron Lux in tenebris lucet Premium Member

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    Actually, If I remember correctly the USS Bellephron had some of the wall finishes/decals in teal instead of blue as on USS Voyager. I think this represents clear evidence of Starfleet shipbuilding advancing between the two ships being constructed, as it's a much nicer colour.
     
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  10. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Voyager was state-of-the-art at launch, so Starfleet is unlikely to have recalled her sister ships for a refit just to account for 5 years of minor tech improvements - the only more advanced ships at the time are the Sovereign and the Prometheus. And what did they really have on the Intrepid? Quantum torpedoes (would show no visible change to the Bellerophon even if she did have them), ablative armor (in the case of Prometheus) - likewise and regenerative shields (again, only on Prometheus and again no visual change to the ship even if so equipped).

    The rest is minor LCARS stuff - my office is still using Windows 7 despite not being 70,000 light-years from civilisation (though we are in Wales).
     
  11. kkt

    kkt Captain Captain

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    My work still uses Windows 7, even though we're dangerously close to Redmond.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We don't really know how old either of those two types is in comparison with the Intrepid. For all we care, half the Starfleet is "advanced" and "cutting edge", and those ST:FC ships are brand new designs all. Or then the registry numbers are telling, and the ST:FC ships all nicely predate TNG and date back to the old Cardassian War; the Prometheus has been undergoing tests since that old war as well; and nobody can tell how old USS Sovereign is since her only known sister ship has a nonstandard registry.

    Funnily enough, we have never seen a quantum torpedo launched from a standard tube. The Defiant and the E-E both have tubes dedicated to this weapon type, never seen firing anything else, and then separate tubes for firing regular photon torpedoes or other nondescript stuff. There were no special tubes in evidence when the Lakota packed quantums in DS9 - but she never fired any, so we can't really tell.

    Whether regenerative shields are a new thing is unclear, too: the computer just rattles out a series of technical specs, without claiming that these would be special to the Prometheus in any way. It may be like a brochure saying "our tank has composite armor and subcaliber antitank ammunition" when every tank on sale has that. After all, we have never seen a starship shield that wouldn't regenerate!

    Ablative armor (in tactically decisive amounts) seems nonstandard, though, as there's dialogue to that effect in "Paradise Lost". But if Starfleet gave none to the Lakota in that refit, and didn't expect the Defiant to have received any, either, then

    1) neither the Voyager nor the Bellerephon would necessarily be recipients no matter what, and
    2) if they were, it would apparently be a matter of requisitioning the right spray cans and doing the required two hours of spacewalk, after which nobody would be the wiser as to whether the ship has the armor or not.

    On a separate note, why would the ship going to Romulus need to be particularly advanced in any front? Starfleet wouldn't want to give up any techno-secrets, now would it? We get the general impression the Intrepid might be fast (Stadi sort of brags on that and Paris appears suitably impressed), which is good for a courier ship. But that's about it for requirements.

    Timo Saloniemi