USS Stargazer Court Marshal

[Nowhere Man]

I'm watching the episode "Measure of aMan", which is one of my favorite episodes if TNG. It is said that Picard was court marshaled for some reason while serving on the Stargazer. Is there ever any reason given? Obviously he was found not guilty,but I don't ever remember a reason given. Perhaps it had to do with Wesley's dad's death?

 

[Nerys Myk]

He lost his ship. That's reason enough to convene a court-martial

 

[EnterpriseGeek]

Picard was court-martialed for the loss of the Stargazer at Maxia Zeta. Now, I know that novels are not canon, but Christopher L. Bennett's book, The Buried Age, goes into more detail about the court-martial and the aftermath.

 

[Nowhere Man]

OK, thanks, I tried to look it up on Memory Alpha, but couldn't find it.

 

[Timo]

Most scifi universes today seem to think it essential that an abandoned starship be scuttled, so that it doesn't fall into enemy hands (or into the hands of innocents who will be hurt by the knowledge) . Picard didn't scuttle the Stargazer - which might be enough reason to keelhaul him already, even before "The Battle" confirms that the enemy did gain control of the derelict.

Then again, Starfleet has never indicated it wants its abandoned ships scuttled. Our heroes initiate self-destruct only in order to gain immediate tactical advantage, not merely to deny the ship from the enemy. But there were enough uncertainties and oddities about the loss of the Stargazer that an investigation sounds like a natural step for Starfleet to take, even if the organization has a relaxed attitude towards most ship losses.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SchwEnt]

...which makes me want to find out about the court-martial when Enterprise-D was lost. Evidently, nothing much happened to Riker and/or Picard. How so?

 

[The Castellan]

...which makes me want to find out about the court-martial when Enterprise-D was lost. Evidently, nothing much happened to Riker and/or Picard. How so?

Probably because Statfleet's starting to wise up. To me, a court martial is silly for loosing a ship, especially in circumstances one can't control. And, also, given that Picard saved many lives, worlds, and the Galaxy many times itself, the cards are on his side, here.

Crap, I can not imagine captains getting a court martial for losing ships in the Dominion Wars, since Starfleet would be screwing itself over.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They said that a court-martial is automatic whenever a ship is lost. This does not always mean that the captain is suspected of wrongdoing; rather, they simply want to get the exact circumstances written in the official record. Remember, the phrase 'court martial' is not in itself criminal. It just means a military court/hearing. Doesn't have to be adversarial in any way. In wartime, it probably takes 30 seconds or less.

AFAIK, this also happens in the real world, and some captains have actually insisted on a court martial just to be sure.

 

[SchwEnt]

Right. So when Starfleet finds out about the details and circumstances relating to the loss of Enterprise-D, what happens to Riker and Picard? What does Starfleet say?

"Oh well. That's understandable, there was nothing you could have done. Carry on."

 

[The Castellan]

Right. So when Starfleet finds out about the details and circumstances relating to the loss of Enterprise-D, what happens to Riker and Picard? What does Starfleet say?

"Oh well. That's understandable, there was nothing you could have done. Carry on."

Considering that they saved an entire star system, I'd say yes.

 

[Mysterion]

You should check out Christopher Bennett's novel The Buried Age. It covers Picard's court martial, IIRC.

 

[MikeH92467]

I think the problem is with the term "Court-martial" itself. It seems to me that a more sensible procedure would be to hold a court of Inquiry, which would decide if there was evidence of negligence, incompetence or cowardice which would warrant a court-martial. In today's peacetime Navy, beaching a ship might be enough to ruin a career, while in wartime even the best captain could find him/herself outgunned and lose a ship and immediately get a new command.

 

[The Wormhole]

The aforementioned novel The Buried Age explains why Picard was actually court-martialed over the loss of the Stargazer as opposed to facing an inquiry.

Spoiler: Novel spoilers

Basically, had the ship been confirmed destroyed, he would only have had to deal with an inquiry, but since it was abandoned intact, not destroyed and adrift left for anyone to claim, this warranted a court-martial.

 

[7thsealord]

The aforementioned novel The Buried Age explains why Picard was actually court-martialed over the loss of the Stargazer as opposed to facing an inquiry.

Spoiler: Novel spoilers

Basically, had the ship been confirmed destroyed, he would only have had to deal with an inquiry, but since it was abandoned intact, not destroyed and adrift left for anyone to claim, this warranted a court-martial.

That reasoning is very sound and, for once, fully in keeping with both common sense AND what is actually seen or said in certain episodes. How often does THAT happen?

 

[Timo]

...The problem with that is that Picard in his surviving log never expresses the desire to see the ship scuttled. To the contrary, he's quite enthusiastic about leaving her adrift and facing future adventures with anybody who'd wish to claim her. Did he read the Starfleet Field Manual too cursorily to realize he was willingly committing a punishable crime?

Nowhere else (in onscreen Star Trek) do we hear that Starfleet would actually want its ships scuttled - the idea doesn't arise even in wartime.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

While she was likely to be destroyed anyway in a short period of time, I don't remember any plans to destroy the first Defiant after the crew abandon her.

The Jem'hadar could have boarded her, and found out who knows what.

.

 

[Rojixus]

They didn't have to destroy the Defiant, she was moments away from a warp-core breach. She was a tough little ship. *sniff*

 

[Shikarnov]

Right. So when Starfleet finds out about the details and circumstances relating to the loss of Enterprise-D, what happens to Riker and Picard? What does Starfleet say?

"Oh well. That's understandable, there was nothing you could have done. Carry on."

Considering that they saved an entire star system, I'd say yes.

They saved an entire star system? Maybe we saw two different movies, but in the version I saw, James T Kirk saved an entire star system because Picard couldn't handle Soran, and Riker couldn't stop talking long enough to unleash the full wrath of the Galaxy-class Enterprise and destroy an aged Klingon bird of prey.

This is how it should have gone down:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGAS-vKdKqA[/yt]

As an aside: for a few details about the aftermath of the E-D's destruction, check out Ship of the Line by one of Trek's all-time-greatest authors, Diane Carey.

 

[Maurice]

They said that a court-martial is automatic whenever a ship is lost. This does not always mean that the captain is suspected of wrongdoing; rather, they simply want to get the exact circumstances written in the official record. Remember, the phrase 'court martial' is not in itself criminal. It just means a military court/hearing. Doesn't have to be adversarial in any way. In wartime, it probably takes 30 seconds or less.

AFAIK, this also happens in the real world, and some captains have actually insisted on a court martial just to be sure.

I think the problem is with the term "Court-martial" itself. It seems to me that a more sensible procedure would be to hold a court of Inquiry, which would decide if there was evidence of negligence, incompetence or cowardice which would warrant a court-martial. In today's peacetime Navy, beaching a ship might be enough to ruin a career, while in wartime even the best captain could find him/herself outgunned and lose a ship and immediately get a new command.

Mr. Laser Beam has it right. A court-martial is convened to determine if a member of the service has violated military law. It's not an uncommon practice in a lot of circumstances, and does not presume guilt or wrongdoing.

Most navies convene a court-martial whenever a ship is lost. As wikipedia correctly explains: "this does not presume that the captain should be suspected of wrongdoing, but merely that the circumstances surrounding the loss of the ship should be made part of the official record. Many ship captains will actually insist on a court-martial in such circumstances."

 

[Deks]

Right. So when Starfleet finds out about the details and circumstances relating to the loss of Enterprise-D, what happens to Riker and Picard? What does Starfleet say?

"Oh well. That's understandable, there was nothing you could have done. Carry on."

Considering that they saved an entire star system, I'd say yes.

Except that from what we saw on-screen, Riker should have for all intense and purposes ordered to fire all weapons at all times at the BoP... not 1 measly phaser shot followed with a photon torpedo that destroyed the Klingons only after forcing them to cloak.

I can understand Picard not getting court marshaled, but Riker most definitely should have been.