USS Prometheus MVAM or not?
- Thread starter cwl
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I have sometimes wondered if MVAM was just a tech "stepping stone" to something more. A Star Fleet 'Voltron', maybe? 
Except all any enemy would have to do is take out the centre portion and the rest of the ship is so totally screwed.
There's an aspect to that, which has never made sense.
If you can operate the helm console aboard the Enterprise, shouldn't you also be able to operate the helm aboard a Prometheus class as well? True there might be SOME specialized controls, but to the point where a "average" helmsperson simply could not be assigned to the ship?
Transporter, warp core, shuttle bay, sick bay. It seems to me that the majority of the crew complement would be interchangeable from any other ship in the fleet. Again, some special stuff for the engineers. But the docking clamps on the Enterprise's join, should be similar to the clamps on the Prommetheus.
In the movie TMP, Decker told Kirk that on one was "full rated" on the science console other than the officer who was killed (and Decker himself apparently). So perhaps the four officers mentioned were the only ones trained (or fully rated) on the Prometheus's exceptions?
But if you were to place Tom Paris at the helm, or Ba'Lanna Torres in engineering, neither would have experienced any unusual problems.
I believe the Prometheus likely would have possessed a normal crew complement, the EMH was still referred to as a "emergency" medical hologram, suggesting that there would eventual be a "non-emergency" mortal being doctor assigned to the ship at some point. The shuttles aboard other ships recieved maintenance (we saw LaForge and Data doing such), the two EMH's never attempted to activate any emergency engineering or maintenace holograms to assist them, so a full size crew would have had engineering and maintenace people as well.
The Enterprise had a counterpart to the main bridge in the engineering/battle section for use during seperations, they would exist in the various seperate sections of the Prom too.
Sorry, I don't understand. Why totally screwed?
The ship would have no way of re-integrating itself.
True, but the two remaining parts could still operate independently in a limited capacity, until such time as a replacement section could be procured.
It would make a lot of sense for the top most section to be capable of docking directly to the lower most section, should the middle section be destroyed or sent off on a independent mission.
Which illustrates why it would be easier to just build 3 full ships for the price of one Prometheus.
Except ...
Each of the three ships would require a full senior command staff, as oppose to one senior staff and some mid level officers to possibly command the two separated sections on rare occasions.
Each of the three ships would require a full medical team, some of whom could spread through-out the ship during battle to deal with casualties, as opposed to one medical team some of whom spread through-out the one ship prior to separation.
The Prometheus with one main sick bay and two emergency room/treatment facilities. The three with three full sick bays.
Each of the three ships would require it's own science team, for science and survey missions. The Prometheus only needs one team for the same missions. And one set of labs.
The Prometheus wouldn't necessarily separate for combat, so under certain scenarios, all of it's three shield generation systems (suitable for three hulls) would be able to envelope a single unified hull. To have the same shielding capacity the three ships would need to have a total of nine shield generation systems between them.
And joined, the Prometheus's shields can be powered by a total of four warp cores, and the three ship's shields, will they be powered by a total of twelve warp cores?
The three ship would alway have to operate as a combined unit. The Enterprise didn't alway know ahead of time when combat would occur.
Each of the three ships would require it's own main deflector/multi-use sensor. Instead of a single unit and two secondary deflectors which weren't multi-use sensors. The impression I have is that the Enterprise Dee's secondary deflector (on the lower saucer surface) wasn't a sensor too.
Each of the three ships would require it's own shuttle bay, instead of sharing just one the majority of the time.
Each of the three ships would require it's own Astrometrics or Stellar Cartography. Both TNG and Voyager indicate that the person in charge of this facility is a specialist, and not just "another crewman."
The Prometheus's upper (destroyer/corvette) section would appear to be uniquely suited for sublight combat, given it's smaller physical size and lower mass, will the three ships also possess a small section for combat in this realm?
It's been conjecture in other threads that two of the Prometheus's sections could be employed as drones, even kamikaze drones, will one of the three ships have sufficiant room to take on the crews of the other two ships?
One gymnasium, verses three. A small thing sure, yet still more redundancy.
When separated the different sections each only carry a portion of the non-combat "bulk" into battle, three separate ships of the same capacities would each carry ALL the additional bulk with them.
Most of those points can be seen as benefits as well. Out of combat the Prometheus wastes carrying around most of the abilities of 3 ships. While 3 separate ships could go on individual missions.
The Prometheus is a one trick pony. "AH! that ship just split into 3!!" quickly becomes "ah, Prometheus class. Focus fire on the command section and ignore the stupid drones" from your enemies.
I will take 3 standard ships any day of the week and kick the crap out of a Prometheus.
The Prometheus is a one trick pony. "AH! that ship just split into 3!!" quickly becomes "ah, Prometheus class. Focus fire on the command section and ignore the stupid drones" from your enemies.
I will take 3 standard ships any day of the week and kick the crap out of a Prometheus.
Ah, but in which of the three sections did the Captain establish her command in this time? You have a one-third chance of being right, and a two-thirds chance of being wrong. Or did she place her first shift (and herself) in the middle section (my favorite), her first officer and second shift in the upper, and finally her second officer in the lower with the night shift.
And what do you do sojourner if she just plain refuses to separate? Sits behind her triple shield system and picks off your one third sized starships one by one? Won't be needing that upper warp core for propulsion, guess she'll just be occasionally diverting all that extra power into the weapons.
How about you divert some of your propulsion energy into your weapons? But remember, each of your starships only cost a third of her's. That was one of your "selling points," wasn't it? That mean she'll have three time the combat capacity of any of your ships.
Nope, while it would carry three times the propulsion, shields, weapons and life support. Why in the world would it carry three time all the other things, that's the big advantage of the Prometheus class, many of the non-combat items that go to make up a starship are divided between the various sections. The majority of the time it is a single starship. If you work in the upper section, and want to visit the holodeck in the lower, just take the turbo-lift.
It doesn't need three of everything, just three of some things.
But remember, each of those ship carries only one-third of the Prometheus's weapons (one third the cost), so if there is a unforeseen firefight, they're screwed.
They only equal the Prometheus while together.
Citation please? we only see evidence of one bridge/command center.
I laugh at her for all of the weapons she has left blocked by the pieces of her ships. Heck, the center section is going to be unable to fire hardly any of it's weapons.
Maneuver my ships to bring all weapons to bare on one side further reducing the number of weapons you can get into firing arc.
Nope, you still need room for all that docking and interlocking equipment. still equal.
That IS most of the abilities What's left? crew space, which is cheap.
And if your opponent is attacking somewhere else while your single Prometheus is patrolling in a different location? what then? 3 full ships can patrol more area and if deployed properly can reinforce each other if needed.Why in the world would it carry three time all the other things, that's the big advantage of the Prometheus class, many of the non-combat items that go to make up a starship are divided between the various sections. The majority of the time it is a single starship. If you work in the upper section, and want to visit the holodeck in the lower, just take the turbo-lift.
It doesn't need three of everything, just three of some things.
But remember, each of those ship carries only one-third of the Prometheus's weapons (one third the cost), so if there is a unforeseen firefight, they're screwed.
They only equal the Prometheus while together.
If you want a really good lesson in tactics in regards to Star Trek I recommend you try Playing the pen and paper game Star Fleet Battles.
You'll quickly learn the advantages of 3 ships that cost the same as one large one, never mind some silly "transformer".
It occurs to me that MVAM might be a way to get round Starfleet's 'no warships' doctrine. The command section could have all the scientific research capacity. The two other parts could be prioritised for combat. In the combined form the ship can carry out all the missions of a standard vessel. Separated, only the command section can.
The two combat sections, if built as independent vessels, would be against Starfleet's rules, and hence not allowed. But as components of one larger vessel, they would not be considered ships in their own right, and so can be designed solely to fight.
Pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, and not supported by the existence of another not-warship, the Defiant class.
The two combat sections, if built as independent vessels, would be against Starfleet's rules, and hence not allowed. But as components of one larger vessel, they would not be considered ships in their own right, and so can be designed solely to fight.
Pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, and not supported by the existence of another not-warship, the Defiant class.
^^Thing is, I thought a lot of the First Contact starships like the Akira, Sabre, Steamrunner and Norway were supposed to be combat ships?
I suppose there's nothing canon either way.
I suppose there's nothing canon either way.
Picard (in WNOHGB): "Starfleet can use his technique to bring back a pure science vessel to do even more."
Making clear that the Enterprise isn't such. Perhaps what Starfleet lacked prior to the Defiant was a "pure war vessel." They had things like the fighters we saw during DS9, but not what could be classified as a "ship." There was a polite fiction, that what they possessed were armed explorers.
Okay, during TOS we saw a auxiliary control room. During TNG we saw a battle bridge and in one episode Picard intend to command the Enterprise from main engineering. During DS9 Worf similarly in one episode tended to command the Defiant from engineering. This shows a pattern of design philosophy on Starfleet's part.
You're completely correct, of the little we saw of the interior of the Prometheus, there were no alternate command facilities shown. However, it was shown that the Prometheus is a large vessel, if other Starfleet vessels can be controlled from warp engineering, well the Prom' has one of those in each section. If other Starfleet vessels contain a battle bridge/auxiliary control room, then shouldn't the Prom' (or for that matter Voyager)?
Unless you feel that's an unreasonable conclusion?
You'd convenantly cluster all of you ships? Thank you.
Well in the joined configuration there the strips directly on the bow. There are the big strips on the under side. And as for the "blocked" strips on the top, directly above them on the outer top section, hey look matching strips.
Okay, then the three sections of the Prometheus will do just that. But I don't think it will be a problem, no one is saying that Starfleet will completely do away with the small, one-third strength ships like you are describing.
But there also will be a need for big, multi-use, heavier armed, extremely fast, ships in the fleet too.
The Galaxy's didn't get rid of the Oberto's. And the Prometheus won't get rid of yours.
I tend to agree. Unless there is something else REALLY wild and game-changing about Prometheus, MVAM's main benefit in combat seems to be more surprise than anything else.
FWIW, a Prometheus-class ship is plainly visible (along with a Nova) in a version of the 26th century glimpsed in "Azati Prime". Although, it is seen in one piece during a battle with the Sphere Builders....
There's also the fact that the Prometheus is specifically referred to as the fastest ship in Starfleet. Perhaps the fact that it is essentially three ships stuck together is responsible for that.
The Prometheus class may have been designed as a rapid response vessel, intended to get to trouble spots as rapidly as possible. Even if the prototype is considered a success by Starfleet, I can't see them being mass produced. They don't fit in with the Federation's ideals. But a small number of ships, ready to respond to emergencies, might be useful.
The Prometheus class may have been designed as a rapid response vessel, intended to get to trouble spots as rapidly as possible. Even if the prototype is considered a success by Starfleet, I can't see them being mass produced. They don't fit in with the Federation's ideals. But a small number of ships, ready to respond to emergencies, might be useful.
