USS Korolev - W.I.P.

[Blip]

Mariner Class said:
May I ask why the dorsal saucer gridlines are slanted towards the bridge? It's especially weird since the hull plating pattern is oriented towards the center of the saucer.

As it stands, it looks like a "texturing error" on a CG model.

That's a good point - if the curvature of the saucer is mirrored equally between fore and aft slopes, then ideally the shield grid would be mirrored likewise; as were the grids on everything up to Voyager (and she had a somewhat.. irregular hull curvature )

And on the subject of *ahem* "temporal anachronisms" Reverend, have you considered using a more ovoid deflector array? The Voyager one seems a bit out of place...

Crits aside though, I quite like how this Korolev looks. It's slowly edging out my personally preferred "sans-torpedo tubes New Orleans" version. :thumbsup:

 

[Data Holmes]

Looks sort of like what the excelsior should have.

 

[The Axeman]

Believe me, I'd love a simple ovoid or circular deflector too. So much neater and easier to build, and I think it would fit more with the Excelsior heritage.

 

[Blip]

Either that or some kind of rectangular one maybe - that way it'd tie in nicely with the Hope / Olympic class...

 

[Reverend]

Blip said:

Mariner Class said:
May I ask why the dorsal saucer gridlines are slanted towards the bridge? It's especially weird since the hull plating pattern is oriented towards the center of the saucer.

As it stands, it looks like a "texturing error" on a CG model.

That's a good point - if the curvature of the saucer is mirrored equally between fore and aft slopes, then ideally the shield grid would be mirrored likewise; as were the grids on everything up to Voyager (and she had a somewhat.. irregular hull curvature )

And on the subject of *ahem* "temporal anachronisms" Reverend, have you considered using a more ovoid deflector array? The Voyager one seems a bit out of place...

Crits aside though, I quite like how this Korolev looks. It's slowly edging out my personally preferred "sans-torpedo tubes New Orleans" version. :thumbsup:

The shape of the saucer and the centering of the gridlines is quite intentional, the shape of the hull is meants to be somewhat Voyager-like, though in a subtle way. As for the alignment of the "Aztec pattern", it's just a placeholder I took from my antares-refit drawing. giving the pattern the correct allignment is one of the LAST things to do as it'll be an absolute nightmare. Put it this way, I've just spent 6 hours, on and off, getting the details on the saucer's side view right and that was just the dorsal half!

As far as the "anachronisms" go, I think it's misleading to think of this as a direct stepping stone in the Ambassador to Galaxy lineage. It's not, at least not exactly. While in chronological terms it was developed between the two classes mentioned above, though it bears features of neither. Some of them were purely experimental at the time, some were not as effective as the designers might have liked, (like the saucer shape, for example) which combined with other engineering pressures meant they were not adapted to later designs. That is until advances in other areas lead to their re-adoption, at least in part.
Engineering and design it like that in real life, it's not often neat and purely linear. Sometime you need to take a step back before you take two forward and sometimes you just hit a dead end, or simply find and easier way to get the same results.

On the other hand, while I really like the deflector, if it's causing Kenny too much trouble to realise in 3D, I may have to redesign it. Whatever design we come up with, my preference is to evoke something of the look of Probert's original Ambassador, if possible, as that is most definatly a step between the Galaxy & the Ambassador and I've always liked the look of it.

 

[Blip]

Reverend said:
As far as the "anachronisms" go, I think it's misleading to think of this as a direct stepping stone in the Ambassador to Galaxy lineage. It's not, at least not exactly. While in chronological terms it was developed between the two classes mentioned above, though it bears features of neither. Some of them were purely experimental at the time, some were not as effective as the designers might have liked, (like the saucer shape, for example) which combined with other engineering pressures meant they were not adapted to later designs. That is until advances in other areas lead to their re-adoption, at least in part.
Engineering and design it like that in real life, it's not often neat and purely linear. Sometime you need to take a step back before you take two forward and sometimes you just hit a dead end, or simply find and easier way to get the same results.

While I can see where you're coming from, I think it's unlikely that those expensive/unsuccessful features would be repeated in the other Korolev-class starships - they'd probably be refined to a design that is easier to mass-produce. As such, I'd expect the production-run vessels to be slightly different from this prototype.

*runs off to tinker with Reverend's schematics*

Whatever design we come up with, my preference is to evoke something of the look of Probert's original Ambassador, if possible, as that is most definatly a step between the Galaxy & the Ambassador and I've always liked the look of it.

That is a great idea. I'm not sure exactly what Mr Probert is planning on doing with his 3D model over in TrekTech with regards that element; it may pay dividends to find out his intentions for the deflector (the original painting always seemed a bit .. nondescript .. in that area!). :thumbsup:

 

[Reverend]

While I can see where you're coming from, I think it's unlikely that those expensive/unsuccessful features would be repeated in the other Korolev-class starships - they'd probably be refined to a design that is easier to mass-produce. As such, I'd expect the production-run vessels to be slightly different from this prototype.

That really depends how you define "unsucessful" in this context. Perhaps the design did what it was supposed to do and top warp 8.9, though by the time the Korolev started rolling off the asssembly line the Galaxy class was already well underway and that design team simply decided to take a different approach to warp dynamics in regards to hull shape. However, by the time the Intrepid-Class project started gaining ground they were able to take some of the lessons from ships of the Korolev's generation onboard and take them a little further.
What I'm trying to do is break this odd idea of direct starfleet ship evolution patterned after progression of the Classes that happened to have an Enterprise in their ranks. I mean, interstallar politics aside, what if the E-C survived Nerandra III and served well into the 2360's? would the E-D still have been a Galaxy or would it be something newer, like an Intrepid, or Bradbury? Would that then change the course of starship evolution? Doubtful.

Anyway, even if the newer, more advanced hullshape on the Korolev wasn't quite up to expectations, it still "worked" as a package and changing the hull shape on the production models seams silly and more trouble than it's worth. I mean it's not going to make it any better and it's cause major knock-on effects to the overall design. Just for starters you'd have to completely re-configure the internal layout of the primary hull, re-route the EPS and ODN networks all over the place, install a re-configured IDF system to compensate for the new superstructure...and so on and so on and for what, exactly?

In short, no, the Goddard had the same shaped saucer as the Korolev, as did all the other ships of the class.

 

[The Axeman]

I'm currently studying cold-war submarine design and it does bring home how designers dont necessarily make the best decisions and how people will stick things out. There were plenty of submarines(and other vehicles) which were less than spectacular when completed, and even though they had nothing but bother with most aspects of the lead ship they still churned them out. Usually it was because they had invested so much in the way of time and resources it was pretty much assured they'd make it if it didn't outright kill everyone aboard immediately. It also didn't hurt that although your ship was a clunky piece of crap, the enemy didn't know that, and you had a chance to iron out some of the flaws as the production run continued. If it was a real hog you might not rush to make too many, but usually the only reason you stop making something new was because some new invention rendered it obsolete.

 

[Blip]

Reverend said:
In short, no, the Goddard had the same shaped saucer as the Korolev, as did all the other ships of the class.

Actually, when I said the components would be refined, I was referring primarily to things like the deflector array - I'm totally with you on keeping the saucer shape (hell, I hate to imagine what they'd have had to do to the 1701 when they decided to refit her!)

If you think back to the differences between the prototype (NX) Excelsior and the changes she received upon being released as a functional (NCC) vessel, that's what I had in mind. :thumbsup:

 

[regemet]

I am enjoying this thread she is becoming a beautiful ship

 

[The Axeman]

When did we change the entire shape and proportions of the saucer, along with the phaser positions? Dammit, just spent the last two hours rebuilding the saucer from scratch. Here we go...

 

[Reverend]

I swear those lines move when I'm not looking. I had a hell of a time trying to keep the Deneva consistent!

As far as I'm concerned the overall hull shape is "Locked". I'll only be fiddling with the details from here on out, except the deflector of course.

Speaking of which; brace yourself.

Deflector concept Mk2
Deflector concept cross-section

What do you think? Too complicated?
For those who are unaware, it's a combination of the original Probert Ambassador study and the design of the Galaxy's own dish.

 

[The Axeman]

Here's the latest update. More work on the saucer; all the windows cut in, thrusters cut in, top phasers done, cargo doors started and main gangways started. I also used the colours from a website TNG colour chart on the main hull, darker hull areas and sensor strips.

 

[Starship]

Looks fine! My only niptick is about the thing over the sec hull. Will be that a shuttle bay? I would go with something in the lines of the USS Pasteur in that place. For a variant, over there is a good place to put a sensor pod (like the Nebula class).

 

[The Axeman]

Shuttlebays will be located at the neck, just behind the saucer section and in front of the bit you mention. That part will have the impulse crystal assembly nestled in its arms. There will also be bays at the very rear part of the secondary hull under 'that bit', not sure if they're meant to be cargo bays or shuttle bays yet, I need to ask Reverend.

 

[Reverend]

That would be Cargo. No movie, no magazine, no bag of peanuts.
Oh and "that bit" is where the deuterium tanks are kept.

 

[The Axeman]

Sorry for the apparent lack of progress, I have been travelling and staying away on business again, and am glad to say I'm back home in the frozen north. I have done some more work to the saucer section, adding more detail and so forth. Next I need to redo the main body and begin adding all the detail, windows, lifeboats, etc.

 

[Reverend]

Yes, how was the terrorist training camp in the new forest? Have fun?

Anyway, I've done the promised custom aztek pattern for the dorsal side of the saucer. Bloody thing took most of yesterday evening. I'm just glad I laid out the deflector grid in such a way so that I could make the pattern symmetrical, otherwise it would have taken twice as long! Tedious stuff that. I'll post the results once I've done the ventral pattern as well, after that I just need to polish off the fore and aft views and then the 2D side of things is done. Assuming of course We don't have to design yet another deflector. If the latest one doesn't work I'm tempted to just poke a round hole in the front and colour it blue.

 

[The Axeman]

I'm surprised they used the New Forest, the traffic was murder when I was there. Things are a bit hectic right now what with work projects, but I hope to complete the new secondary hull later this week and then I'llpost some updates.

 

[Reverend]

No, that's just normal traffic for down here. If it's not stacked up 4 miles ahead of you with roadworks every 10 meters then chances are you're in a field.

You want to try driving through the new forest at night mate. Thick fog patches every two minutes, psychotic that jump right out in front of you and suicidal ponies that decide to play chicken with artics. Lots of fun!