USS Kelvin - examination and theories (large images)

[Eric Cheung]

What about the movie era ships? The refit and the Reliant had engines with those black sections on the front. What were they? And then there's the Grissom with it's armored cap on the front instead of any kind of orb or collector.

One thing I'll give TNG ship design is that the engines were fairly consistent since they knew the function of their components.

 

[Vektor]

So do people want to MAKE them something else or what? Really what else
would the bussards be besides... the bussards. It's been part of the designs
of the ships from the beginning, TNG simply defined them.

TNG defined them for TNG-era warp nacelle designs, but the front ends of the nacelles in TOS were totally different from anything else ever seen in Trek and were never identified as bussard collectors. As mentioned, Franz Joseph called them "Space/Energy Matter Sinks" in his non-canon Technical Manual but that's about as close as anyone ever came to officially identifying what they were and how they worked.

We can certainly assume retroactively that they were bussard collectors based on their similar location to the TNG versions, the fact that they glow, etc, but it wouldn't be any great stretch for Trek XI to identify them as something completely different in that era.

And if both we're nacelles or both we're deflectors(Cause the latter makes
a whole lot of sense) then I think the colors would be the same.
Traditionaly the... "Front ends" of the engines are red or orange and the
deflectors are blue.

Again, this is not entirely correct, especially for the TOS era. The nacelle domes in TOS were a variety of colors ranging from solid copper to illuminated flashes of red, green blue and other colors depending on which Christmas tree lights were installed at the time, and the deflector in TOS wasn't lit at all. The movie-era designs had amber or blue deflectors and unlit nacelle caps, but also added glowing elements along the sides of the nacelles, usually blue or indigo. It wasn't until the TNG era that red bussard collectors and mostly blue deflectors became the norm.

Having said all that, I agree that the object on top is probably some kind of secondary hull/deflector combo and the object below is most likely a warp nacelle.

 

[yenny]

I try to put down a link. But it didn't work. I was trying link you, to a site about the Declaration class starship. That the Kelvin might be base on.

 

[Plecostomus]

Ah yeah the Delceration Class. Someone made one from a micro-machine years ago. It's based on one of the ideas they pitched for the design of the ship. Two nacelles under secondary hull over. He had some neat ideas to go with it too, like the top of the secondary hull opening like the Space Shuttle's doors and stuff like that.

 

[yenny]

You know, that concept drawing was by Matt Jefferies. The person who did the drawings of the 1701, the Daedalus and the the ring ship name Enterprise.

 

[Timo]

Then again, there ain't that many ways to put together a starship if you try to observe the "Roddenberry rules" and kitbash it all from Enterprise components...

There are many fan designs similar to that Jeffries doodle which had the two nacelles below the saucer and the pod above it. aridas sofia did the very detailed Pytheas class, for example; various RPGs have had similar stuff, too.

AFAIK, Jeffries never doddled the one-above, one-below look, but there are many beautiful and many more butt-ugly fan designs on that as well. And the single-below, pod-above look has always been popular as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Knucles2]

The Bussard Collectors are a TNG era invention, from my understanding.

Damn... I used to have a wonderful copy of "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" along with the "ED's" blueprints and a few other books from TOS, with all sorts of starships and whatnot.

~String

No, bussard collectors have always been around. That's always been what the front part of the nacelles are.

They were referred to as "matter sinks" a long time before any TNG stuff came into play. Not sure if that was as early as "The Making of Star Trek," because my copy isn't handy, but it was definitely in Franz Joseph's Technical Manual, for what that's worth.

Franz Joseph called them "Space Energy/Matter Sinks (acquisition)", and the little balls at the opposite end "Space Energy/Matter Source (restoration)" which implied to me the domes up front grabbed hold of space itself and possibly opened up some kind of rift, the machinery in the middle dragged the ship through that rift, and the aft bumps stitched space back together.

Personally, I always thought of the domes as the main matter/antimatter intermix ... the tremendous energies released brilliant enough to even shine through opaque materials and held at a distance from the rest of the ship for very obvious reasons.

To me, having the intermix out on the nacelles makes the most sense. I kinda like the Mattersink-Push me/Pull me- idea. If the Impulse and Warp engines were "reactionless" drives, then Buzzard ram collectors wouldn't be needed....But I don't have a degree in Treknology, so what do I know ???

 

[M'Sharak]

You know, that concept drawing was by Matt Jefferies. The person who did the drawings of the 1701, the Daedalus and the the ring ship name Enterprise.

Is this the link you wanted?

http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/declaration/declaration.htm

 

[yenny]

You know, that concept drawing was by Matt Jefferies. The person who did the drawings of the 1701, the Daedalus and the the ring ship name Enterprise.

Is this the link you wanted?

http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/declaration/declaration.htm

Thanks, you're a mind reader.

 

[M'Sharak]

^ Top of the list on a Google search.

 

[BenRoethig]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Is there a WEEEEE chance that this is a shot of the ship flying upside down? It's possible.

Not likely. Every ship I've seen so far has the registry number going from the starboard side of the ship to the port side both top and bottom. If it were upside down, the registry would be going from port to starboard.

 

[ancient]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Also, why the hell would they release the ship upside-down? This isn't 1966, the model isn't made of balsa wood and hanging on a string.

 

[PixelMagic]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Also, why the hell would they release the ship upside-down? This isn't 1966, the model isn't made of balsa wood and hanging on a string.

You're right, it's made of 1s and 0s

 

[trevanian]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Also, why the hell would they release the ship upside-down? This isn't 1966, the model isn't made of balsa wood and hanging on a string.

Yeah, and if you can make me believe you can fly that heavy 1966 130+" model on strings, then maybe I'll start believing you about the balsa wood, instead of what it really was, which was a lot of hard work coupled with aluminum and pine and plastic -- not 'balsa wood.'

It's okay to reference xmas lights for the bridge, because they DID use those ... but to denigrate the amazing craftsmanship of Datin & co ... disgusting.

 

[ancient]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Also, why the hell would they release the ship upside-down? This isn't 1966, the model isn't made of balsa wood and hanging on a string.

Yeah, and if you can make me believe you can fly that heavy 1966 130+" model on strings, then maybe I'll start believing you about the balsa wood, instead of what it really was, which was a lot of hard work coupled with aluminum and pine and plastic -- not 'balsa wood.'

It's okay to reference xmas lights for the bridge, because they DID use those ... but to denigrate the amazing craftsmanship of Datin & co ... disgusting.

Sir, you misunderstand. The actual finished models were not balsa wood, nor did they hang on strings. Matt Jefferies built a very quick and rough mock-up using balsa wood, and I think pine dowels for the nacelles. He used it as a 'proof of concept' to show the producers. Unfortunately, because of the pine dowels, it hung upside-down. He sold the look of the ship. Upside down.

 

[trevanian]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Also, why the hell would they release the ship upside-down? This isn't 1966, the model isn't made of balsa wood and hanging on a string.

Yeah, and if you can make me believe you can fly that heavy 1966 130+" model on strings, then maybe I'll start believing you about the balsa wood, instead of what it really was, which was a lot of hard work coupled with aluminum and pine and plastic -- not 'balsa wood.'

It's okay to reference xmas lights for the bridge, because they DID use those ... but to denigrate the amazing craftsmanship of Datin & co ... disgusting.

Sir, you misunderstand. The actual finished models were not balsa wood, nor did they hang on strings. Matt Jefferies built a very quick and rough mock-up using balsa wood, and I think pine dowels for the nacelles. He used it as a 'proof of concept' to show the producers. Unfortunately, because of the pine dowels, it hung upside-down. He sold the look of the ship. Upside down.

Have they rewritten that tale a bit? Thought it was just like the Reliant/ Mike Minor thing, where the sketch was approved upside down.

 

[ancient]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

That is also true, but because they decided to flip the design afterwards - they liked it better upside down.

Jefferies was interviewed about the designing of the TOS ship, the balsa wood model mistake was one of the amusing stories he's told a few times.

 

[trevanian]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

That is also true, but because they decided to flip the design afterwards - they liked it better upside down.

Jefferies was interviewed about the designing of the TOS ship, the balsa wood model mistake was one of the amusing stories he's told a few times.

Gotcha. Apologies for jumping to high warp for a wrong conclusion.

 

[ancient]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

No problem. I know there is an unfair rumor that just won't die aboout the actual models being on strings. Which makes no sense.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: USS Kelvin - examination and theories

Some of the smaller models were hung on strings, like the Romulan Bird of Prey and possibly the Klingon D-7, but even the little three foot model of the Enterprise had a little pipe mount on the bottom of the secondary hull.

As for that eleven foot monster? The only time that model was hung was when the Smithsonian goons were displaying her in the Air & Space Museum, and only recently found out that she really wasn't designed to hang, and those years of doing precisely that have taken their toll on the old girl. That's why she's in a display case, supported from below, with the old effects stand nearby.