Us Damned Americans

[Itisnotlogical]

This thread is not about the video itself, but it is somewhat pertinent, so here it is:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6t6d9YBuFM[/yt]

As I look more and more at the comments on videos like the above clip, it seems like everybody in the world hates Americans. Not just the politicians, every English-speaking person of European descent who just happens to have been born here. Whenever something bad happens, it's America's fault. It isn't ever just the President's fault, or just the Admiralty's fault, or just the Cabinet's fault, everybody living in the middle portion of the American continent somehow, some way contributes to every disaster and tragedy that happens in the world.

I might not be looking at every case but I'm pissed as hell. Every time I turn around, read the newspaper, watch TV, flip on the radio, everybody in every inhabited continent is saying that every person living in America should just jump off a cliff for shame. For one thing, a lot of the people who say those sorts of things live in foreign countries, and have their whole lives. They haven't lived a day in the life of the average American citizen, legal or not: if they had, they would realize that most people's daily routine does not consist of chuckling evilly, blindly worshiping the government, and thinking of new ways to destroy foreign culture/foreign economies/the environment/etc.

Once again, I may not have reviewed all of the evidence (or even made terribly much sense) but this is something that really makes me angry. America has it's flaws, but by and large it is NOT the fault of the citizens what decisions the people in power make. They can elect people who are less likely to make bad decisions, but ultimately it's up to the People In Power. The population has enough problems of its own without making more for other countries.

 

[scottydog]

Sometimes America-bashing is deserved. We're far from perfect. But often the criticisms are on based on envy or jealousy, in which case I just ignore it.

You're absolutely right that it's never wise to judge the citizenry of a nation based on the actions of the government.

 

[Captain_Nick]

It's very unlikely that anyone will understand what I mean by this - you guys know what it feels like to be a Collingwood supporter. Take my advice and hate them all back.

 

[Subcommander R.]

I think its a shame we have such a vocal community that preaches absolute swill. There are carbon-copies the world over, but its a stereotype here.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Sometimes America-bashing is deserved. We're far from perfect. But often the criticisms are on based on envy or jealousy, in which case I just ignore it.

That's exactly the sort of weird assumption that leads people to make sweeping bashing generalizations. "Jealous", "envy".. now I suspect people say this often without thinking. Because when they were a kid in school and someone teased them because they were smart or pretty or had the latest gadget their mom said "don't let that bother you, they are just jealous.." I think it's some weird meme that keeps getting regurgitated that criticism of America by people who live in other first world nations comes from jealousy. Jealous of what? I've lived in 3 different countries (including the US) and though America has some nice stuff so does everywhere else. People in first world Europe, Canada, Australia are not jealous of America, they do not envy America and if they criticize or bash America it does not stem from that. It might be a passionate political criticism or it might be a knee jerk ignorant bashing or it might be something in between. Responding that whatever is hurled at you is from jealousy sounds quite narcissistic. Once again I'm not saying this is a well thought out assumption on people's part, just a weird meme that only serves to make the people who utter it look fat headed.

I would always strive to separate criticism of a country's politics from criticism of the people living everyday lives. I'll admit though that this has been more difficult of late because the nationalism and propaganda generated by some sectors of the American people and trumpeted by some sectors of the American media puts great emphasis on America being a monolith of God directed actions that all true Americans are behind. I do know quite a few Americans who (and they are my friends, I respect and care for them) talk this way all the time and honestly believe any military action taken, ever, by the US in a foreign land is to protect their personal freedom and that God has ordained it. They do not speak as individuals but as if they ARE America and that is why I do sometimes have difficulty not making generalizations because it seems the culture actually encourages it.

So there's some feedback for you BUT.. I will say, please don't take youtube comments to heart about anything. It's troll city, people just use it to vent and spew.

 

[Trekker4747]

This thread is not about the video itself, but it is somewhat pertinent, so here it is:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6t6d9YBuFM[/yt]

As I look more and more at the comments on videos like the above clip, it seems like everybody in the world hates Americans. Not just the politicians, every English-speaking person of European descent who just happens to have been born here. Whenever something bad happens, it's America's fault. It isn't ever just the President's fault, or just the Admiralty's fault, or just the Cabinet's fault, everybody living in the middle portion of the American continent somehow, some way contributes to every disaster and tragedy that happens in the world.

I might not be looking at every case but I'm pissed as hell. Every time I turn around, read the newspaper, watch TV, flip on the radio, everybody in every inhabited continent is saying that every person living in America should just jump off a cliff for shame. For one thing, a lot of the people who say those sorts of things live in foreign countries, and have their whole lives. They haven't lived a day in the life of the average American citizen, legal or not: if they had, they would realize that most people's daily routine does not consist of chuckling evilly, blindly worshiping the government, and thinking of new ways to destroy foreign culture/foreign economies/the environment/etc.

Once again, I may not have reviewed all of the evidence (or even made terribly much sense) but this is something that really makes me angry. America has it's flaws, but by and large it is NOT the fault of the citizens what decisions the people in power make. They can elect people who are less likely to make bad decisions, but ultimately it's up to the People In Power. The population has enough problems of its own without making more for other countries.

Watching that video just makes me remarkably sad.

I can't believe such lunacy and bigotry is possible in this day and age. But there it is.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Sometimes America-bashing is deserved. We're far from perfect. But often the criticisms are on based on envy or jealousy, in which case I just ignore it.

That's exactly the sort of weird assumption that leads people to make sweeping bashing generalizations. "Jealous", "envy".. now I suspect people say this often without thinking. Because when they were a kid in school and someone teased them because they were smart or pretty or had the latest gadget their mom said "don't let that bother you, they are just jealous.." I think it's some weird meme that keeps getting regurgitated that criticism of America by people who live in other first world nations comes from jealousy. Jealous of what? I've lived in 3 different countries (including the US) and though America has some nice stuff so does everywhere else. People in first world Europe, Canada, Australia are not jealous of America, they do not envy America and if they criticize or bash America it does not stem from that. It might be a passionate political criticism or it might be a knee jerk ignorant bashing or it might be something in between. Responding that whatever is hurled at you is from jealousy sounds quite narcissistic. Once again I'm not saying this is a well thought out assumption on people's part, just a weird meme that only serves to make the people who utter it look fat headed.

I would always strive to separate criticism of a country's politics from criticism of the people living everyday lives. I'll admit though that this has been more difficult of late because the nationalism and propaganda generated by some sectors of the American people and trumpeted by some sectors of the American media puts great emphasis on America being a monolith of God directed actions that all true Americans are behind. I do know quite a few Americans who (and they are my friends, I respect and care for them) talk this way all the time and honestly believe any military action taken, ever, by the US in a foreign land is to protect their personal freedom and that God has ordained it. They do not speak as individuals but as if they ARE America and that is why I do sometimes have difficulty not making generalizations because it seems the culture actually encourages it.

So there's some feedback for you BUT.. I will say, please don't take youtube comments to heart about anything. It's troll city, people just use it to vent and spew.

And that's very well said

 

[RJDiogenes]

Oh, a lot of anti-American sentiment in the world is jealousy, no doubt about it. At this time in History, America is the dominant culture and that inevitably breeds resentment. But a lot of it is also political propaganda. People will take videos like the one Posted above and present it as if it actually represented America (and, of course, it doesn't help that domestic anti-American groups constantly wave the flag and talk about the Constitution as if they believed in them). And we do have a problem with hate groups, certainly, just as other countries do; that's inevitable, especially when we allow near-unrestricted freedom of speech. But when the citizens of foreign countries see video like that presented as if it were the norm, it's no wonder they think ill of the United States.

 

[captcalhoun]

i'm not jealous or envious of America but, by Primus, you do have some fucking dickheads in your country. and too many of them are allowed on TV or into politics.

in Britain, our dickheads, unfortunately, are concentrated in two places: the Cabinet and Barclays Bank. eliminate those two places and we're good.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

^^

Over here we have the Popular Dickheads and the Everyday Dickheads, and unfortunately you encounter both regularly here

 

[cultcross]

Because America can be so extremely patriotic to the point of nationalism, with flags flying everywhere and 'pledges of allegiance' and in general a much stronger collective identity than most other 1st world nations, there is a much greater tendency to equate the country with its people. This level of ingrained national identity plays into painting all Americans with a broad brush. For example, I am much quicker to associate American public feeling with the actions of their president or government than I am with say Sarkozy, Merkel or Harper. We in the wider world very rarely hear about American citizens going against the grain, and that fuels the stereotype of one monolithic entity.

In my opinion, it also leads to a general feeling that Americans can be arrogant. Perhaps because Americans are raised in this manner, with lots of emphasis on pride in their nation, they can come across as condescending and, frankly, rude, when discussing other nations. There is a perceived inability to distinguish between 'different' and 'worse'. Examples include referring to Britain as being 'disarmed', or the criticism of everything about the Italian justice system that differed from the US one during the Knox trial. I had one American poster here tell me once that we lived in a 'brutal police state' because a jury is permitted to infer things from you remaining silent after arrest. What he meant was 'that's not how we do it'.

A lot of this ties into what was said upthread about an assumption of jealousy. The teaching from a young age that America is, well, frakking awesome, leads people to feel that everyone must want to live there, really, deep down. So if we're mean to it, it's just because we really wish we were there. Like pulling the hair of the girl you like in the playground. When it comes to other developed nations like the ones who comment on youtube videos, there is little jealousy coming into play. Most people like where they live just fine.

 

[Amaris]

Because America can be so extremely patriotic to the point of nationalism, with flags flying everywhere and 'pledges of allegiance' and in general a much stronger collective identity than most other 1st world nations, there is a much greater tendency to equate the country with its people. This level of ingrained national identity plays into painting all Americans with a broad brush. For example, I am much quicker to associate American public feeling with the actions of their president or government than I am with say Sarkozy, Merkel or Harper. We in the wider world very rarely hear about American citizens going against the grain, and that fuels the stereotype of one monolithic entity.

In my opinion, it also leads to a general feeling that Americans can be arrogant. Perhaps because Americans are raised in this manner, with lots of emphasis on pride in their nation, they can come across as condescending and, frankly, rude, when discussing other nations. There is a perceived inability to distinguish between 'different' and 'worse'. Examples include referring to Britain as being 'disarmed', or the criticism of everything about the Italian justice system that differed from the US one during the Knox trial. I had one American poster here tell me once that we lived in a 'brutal police state' because a jury is permitted to infer things from you remaining silent after arrest. What he meant was 'that's not how we do it'.

A lot of this ties into what was said upthread about an assumption of jealousy. The teaching from a young age that America is, well, frakking awesome, leads people to feel that everyone must want to live there, really, deep down. So if we're mean to it, it's just because we really wish we were there. Like pulling the hair of the girl you like in the playground. When it comes to other developed nations like the ones who comment on youtube videos, there is little jealousy coming into play. Most people like where they live just fine.

I can understand that. I love my country, but it's not because of a flag or because I'm "supposed" to love my country. I do because I love the people here. Sure, we have some seriously backward and proudly ignorant folks, but we're not all bad. I'd say most of us are pretty good once you get to know us.

We certainly are more collective, but that in itself isn't bad. The upside is that we can work together more quickly and efficiently when the chips are down. The downside is that we can also fall into a sort of mob mentality. It's a blessing and a curse.

The perceived issues with the United States aren't that other nations are jealous, or that we throw our weight around, it's that many of us are assumed to be, well, stupid. Nations that let Hollywood and 24 hour news cycles tell them what every U.S. citizen must be like, that we're all loud, obnoxious and rude, that we don't like to read, or that we love Jebus so much that we'll make this nation a Theocracy yet, and then we'll spread it around.

We've managed to become a large, prosperous nation with abundant natural and human resources, and we're on top of our game. Look at our history. It's all fairly recent compared to other nations. We're still the new kid on the block, and we've managed to become very powerful and very influential very quickly, and that's bound to cause some disturbance on the world stage.

The collectivism is due to that history. When we started out, it was understood that if we wanted to keep this land, and to grow in it, we had to sink or swim together, and the vestiges of those early days still exist. It was reinforced in the 1950s all the way up through the 1980s, thanks to a Cold War and an increasingly global presence and ideological advantage.

That effect is still wearing off, at least among those who recognize we're not the only people on the planet. You'll find the vast majority of the sloganeering and rabid patriotism to come from fundamentalist conservative religious groups, who somehow think we have always been founded as a Christian nation, even though history repeatedly shows otherwise.

There's right little we can do about that. You know as well as I do that stupid knows no national boundary, and the more indelibly stupid someone is, the more certain they are in their forthright crusade to make everyone else as stupid as they are.

Most U.S. citizens are decent, hard working people, just like the citizens of Britain, Japan, Canada, and many other first world nations. We love our families, we care about others, we try to make the world a better place, when we can. We as individuals, and sometimes collectively, go against the grain every day, we each have an individual responsibility to ourselves, we do work together, collectively, and we do identify with our world leaders, even if we don't always agree with them. They represent us. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Honestly, we're just regular, flawed human beings. That's what we are. No greater or less than anyone else.

 

[scottydog]

Oh, a lot of anti-American sentiment in the world is jealousy, no doubt about it. At this time in History, America is the dominant culture and that inevitably breeds resentment.

Well said, my friend.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oh, a lot of anti-American sentiment in the world is jealousy, no doubt about it. At this time in History, America is the dominant culture and that inevitably breeds resentment.

Well said, my friend.

Resentment and jealousy are not the same thing.

 

[backstept]

Team America World Police was a true story.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

We've managed to become a large, prosperous nation with abundant natural and human resources, and we're on top of our game. Look at our history. It's all fairly recent compared to other nations..

Like.. Canada? Australia (okay, much lower pop), the UK which has been large and prosperous for far longer?

One of the big differences between the US and Canada which share similar age, land mass and culture is that the US constantly talks about how fab it is, and how other nations envy their freedom. Hello, Canada has the same freedoms, the same first world climate, the same land mass relatively, the same culture and language, the same history span as far as being a nation of the New World. And yet it somehow exists like this without invading other nations and trumpeting it's moral superiority and supposed "freedoms" as being worthy of envy.

I just don't get what is so much better about the US that people have to assume it is somehow UNIQUE and MORE SPECIAL than other countries. And believe me I remember growing up in America and being taught over and over that America is the land of freedom. I had to come of age and apply a modicum of thought to realize that HEY plenty of other countries are democracies with similar (if not greater) levels of personal freedom, prosperity and living standards. And yet this meme still persists.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The United States of America is currently one of the planet's dominant nations, by at least some measure the most dominant. The American culture (or cultures, perhaps) is likewise extremely influential. You can't avoid it. It's inevitably there, in your face, whether it's trying to be or not. So it's going to attract a lot of attention, both positive and negative. Its successes will be blown out of proportion; so will its failings. Like any nation or culture, it has its admirable traits and its not so admirable ones, its triumphs and its shames, its accomplishments and its internal stresses. All nations and cultures do; I dare anyone to show me a culture that hasn't got Some Very Big Problems as well as positive traits. But because America is such a big player on the global stage it all has a big knock-on effect elsewhere, and so everyone will be sensitive to it. It's easy to take note of America's ills because, like everything else about the dominant culture, it's there before the world's eyes every day, influential by default. And people will forget that the average American walking the street to work is the same as the average German, Russian, Egyptian, Australian or Brazilian walking the street to work, and they'll forget that America is no more problematic than most nations (and less problematic than many), and they'll forget that Americans struggle with the direction their country takes same as the rest of us. And for every "America is the devil!!" rant you'll have an "America is the bestest place in the world!" gush, and both perspectives are really the same thing - America's prominance meaning everything about it, good and/or bad, is taken to extremes.

Once America starts to drop away (economically, politically, socially, which it pretty much inevitably will) it will just become part of the mass and whoever replaces it as top dog will become the subject of all the attention. It'll be "us damned Chinese" or "us damned Indians" or whoever (someone with far more insight than I is needed to tell you exactly who's most likely). America is in the firing line because it's big and powerful and there, and its agendas carry much weight in the global scheme of things. Once that's not quite so much the case, the America-hating will probably stop (so will the America-gushing); it'll be someone elses' turn to experience it. Well, that's what I think, personally.

America just is. It's big, it's influential, it's there being its American self and doing its American thing. And when America is just another country that'll be enough for most people. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else like or don't like about American culture, the traits I applaud or those I condemn - because it's their country. They'll have a list of things they like and dislike about my point of origin - we all do. It's just that at the moment they're so influential that their agendas and actions and ideological struggles become everyone's by default. Which is why they get so much attention both good and bad.

 

[Amaris]

We've managed to become a large, prosperous nation with abundant natural and human resources, and we're on top of our game. Look at our history. It's all fairly recent compared to other nations..

Like.. Canada? Australia (okay, much lower pop), the UK which has been large and prosperous for far longer?

One of the big differences between the US and Canada which share similar age, land mass and culture is that the US constantly talks about how fab it is, and how other nations envy their freedom. Hello, Canada has the same freedoms, the same first world climate, the same land mass relatively, the same culture and language, the same history span as far as being a nation of the New World. And yet it somehow exists like this without invading other nations and trumpeting it's moral superiority and supposed "freedoms" as being worthy of envy.

I just don't get what is so much better about the US that people have to assume it is somehow UNIQUE and MORE SPECIAL than other countries. And believe me I remember growing up in America and being taught over and over that America is the land of freedom. I had to come of age and apply a modicum of thought to realize that HEY plenty of other countries are democracies with similar (if not greater) levels of personal freedom, prosperity and living standards. And yet this meme still persists.

The U.S. is a dominant superpower. As much as I love Canada, it isn't even close. Britain was an empire, and now it's not. Australia is nowhere near a world power. I don't think the U.S. is better or more special, or unique in that regard, particularly when you look at world history, but the fact of the matter is that for the moment, we are immensely powerful militarily, with vast resources, and we are currently the sole superpower.

Our politics and culture influences the globe. That's not bragging, it's not arrogance, it's simply the way things are for now. It won't stay that way. We'll get to the point where our reach exceeds our grasp (which may have already happened, but I'm not sure), and we'll start the decline, just like everybody else.

Edit: Or, I could have saved some typing and simply agreed with Deranged Nasat.

 

[Crash]

Sometimes America-bashing is deserved. We're far from perfect. But often the criticisms are on based on envy or jealousy, in which case I just ignore it.

Two words here: Freedom fries. The way the United States has treated, say, France has been as ugly as anything other first world countries throw at the US.

You're absolutely right that it's never wise to judge the citizenry of a nation based on the actions of the government.

This might be true of an autocracy or monarchy, but it certainly isn't true of a representative democracy. We choose our leaders, and therefore, collectively, share at least some responsibility for their actions.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think another important point is that our perspectives take different views of power relations based on our point of origin. Take the United Nations. One interesting thing I've observed is that non-Americans opposed to the UN (or at least to some of its policies and activities) tend to see the UN and the USA as practically synonymous. They see UN policy as an American agenda, or enforcing an American-centric worldview. On the other hand, Americans who dislike the UN or its policies tend to see it as a European-centric organization, and its influence as a European intrusion into American culture. So the non-Americans define the UN as basically "American" and the Americans define it as "non-American". So there we are.

It can definitely be hard on everyone - we have to remember, I think, that the average American in the street is in the same position as the average member-of-any-other-nation-in-the-street: their lives under the influence of other power blocs they may not like or consider alien. The Americans are in exactly the same boat as the rest of us.