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US behind in Math/Science skills

Middle Earther

Commodore
Commodore
High school math teacher invovled with US defense program

Probably not a surprise to many, but I was interested in hearing some reactions to this story. I am an elementary school teacher myself, so any talk on education is interesting to me. I've always wondered what can be done to improve these statistics in the future.

I think that it would be a good idea to give more incentives for math/science teachers, although this program described above looks like a good start.

I was going to post this as a response to the moon mission thread because I thought it would be a strong argument for keeping NASA well-funded.
 
Did you major in Education, or a discipline that is actually taught in the school system?

Just curious.
 
I majored in Education. I received my undergrad degree in the States. Here in Canada, or I should say in British Columbia, teachers - regardless of what level they plan on teaching - need to get a 4yr degree in a specific area first. Then they have a one year "teacher education" program. I often thought that that might be the better way to go.
 
I've always wondered what can be done to improve these statistics in the future.

According to The Wire, statistics are the root of all evil.

And the fact that this was the first thing I thought of says I've been thinking about that damn show too much....
 
I prefer the saying, "There lies, Damn lies, and statistics".:techman:

Though, without reading the article, yea, general conception is that education these days lags behind most developed countries.
 
I don't like education being statistics based either. I think it can cripple good education, since it's a false objective, which divorces the purpose of schooling from the reality of it.

Statistics puts a lot of pressure on examiners: If one year a class gets lower scores than the previous, the question is asked why? Less able students? or teachers giving bad lessons this year? Unfortunately, the latter is the preferred reason, and students could make a big fuss about that if the low class average appears to affect what degree they graduate with.

So examiners are encouraged to "scale up" marks so they are similar to previous years; meanwhile the syllabus is remade with lesser depth every few years to offset the need to scale up. It doesn't help that so many less able students are allowed into university which reduces the class average grades. It is supposed to be for the gifted elite, not for 50% of all school leavers. Another trick is to make every exam so similar to the previous years exam that it is essentially giving away answers.

My point being that this is a cascade effect from similar policies made in colleges and high school to improve statistics.

This happened while I was at university. I could see it happening. And it was explained to me on the quiet by one of the senior staff when I asked too many questions about it.
 
I don't like education being statistics based either. I think it can cripple good education, since it's a false objective, which divorces the purpose of schooling from the reality of it.

Statistics puts a lot of pressure on examiners: If one year a class gets lower scores than the previous, the question is asked why? Less able students? or teachers giving bad lessons this year? Unfortunately, the latter is the preferred reason, and students could make a big fuss about that if the low class average appears to affect what degree they graduate with.

So examiners are encouraged to "scale up" marks so they are similar to previous years; meanwhile the syllabus is remade with lesser depth every few years to offset the need to scale up. It doesn't help that so many less able students are allowed into university which reduces the class average grades. It is supposed to be for the gifted elite, not for 50% of all school leavers. Another trick is to make every exam so similar to the previous years exam that it is essentially giving away answers.

My point being that this is a cascade effect from similar policies made in colleges and high school to improve statistics.

This happened while I was at university. I could see it happening. And it was explained to me on the quiet by one of the senior staff when I asked too many questions about it.

When I was at university, not so long ago, I didn't feel that it was remotely dumbed down, the standards were high for getting a first, concepts were introduced which were intellectually challenging, it was self evident that they were so and they were explored in depth through project work and examinations. However that was my experience, I don't know what its like across the board but I find this is blanket typecasting of a sort and it would probably be more accurate to say that there is a non uniform dumbing down of degrees which means some are going this route, some are not.

The gifted elite comment, it carries a lot of negative connotations. I'd say a more educated populace overall is a great thing, why? Because it should foster a more critical culture. In Argentinia education is underfunded as politicians seek to develop gullible and misinformed peons. Less education=more likely to follow orders and not think independently, which is great for the elites as they can send the peasants off to fight wars on the basis of flimsy ideology, or accept their lot in life as cattle for the slave drivers.

So while less able students might not contribute anything special to the fields they studied they will have been given the chance to acquire important skills. In any case it doesn't matter as what you'll have is just a greater pool of mediocrity from which the more able will stand out. The significant thing though is that overall you will have a more intelligent and better informed populace. I'd rather not go back to the middle ages thank you very much.

A few criticisms I do have about education are thusly; the over emphasis on industry relating to university degrees, intellectual enlightenment is as important as technical knowledge, ergo the former shouldn't be dismissed so readily, history/philosophy/literature are important subject areas that give us significant insights into humanity. What is it to have at ones mastery incredible technologies when one doesn't have the wherewithal to use them wisely. Secondly, the exam results based economy, while exams are an easy way of encouraging people to cram knowledge into their heads and motivate them, a greater emphasis on research and project work would be welcome, as its in these field that one truly develops their bullshit detectors and the ability to skeptically inquire about subject areas. Thats actually a major problem with schools, I remember the authoritarian structures and how you were essentially trained up to be a good future employee who never questioned anything.
 
I am a former teacher, so I will tell you it is a combination of math teachers and the students because of home and society. I know in my life all of my math teachers were horrible K- college. All of them had the personality of a rock. If you asked them a question, they always tried to make you feel like you were an idiot. Science say thing. I have found that people that are in these fields tend to not have to best people skills and therefore they are not very good teachers in my opinion. Add to that the fact that society always plays that people smart in these areas are nerds and outcast and there you have it.

It just amazes me to know end how basic math is so hard for the average person. I mean balancing a checkbook is too much for the average person as well as percentages. I hate to say my son has had to "correct" his math and science teachers on several occasions when they told him something that was incorrect and we had to correct it. Keep in mind I am not even counting technology as a science. I just had a teacher tell me something yesterday about her computer that made me tell her it was just magic that changed it. Now that is scary.
 
In terms of America being behind in educational results in comparison to other western countries, there's something I've been hearing for years. Maybe one of you could comment.

America's results are based on the scores of students who are average, above average and below average. Other nations only score with results from average and above average, omitting below average student test scores. And if America used their system, or they used ours, America would consistantly score in the top five of western nations.

Or is this just a urban myth?
 
Jadzia makes a good point on education being statistics based.

Not to mention our education system is geared lately towards teaching to the test. Not teaching people then testing to verify knowledge learned, but instead creating a test then telling the students they have to pass it. It creates an entire generation of expert test takers who take the tests, then forget everything they learned (defeating the point of the test)
 
For what it's worth, the British education system seems to be suffering the ill-effects of statistics: in that governments from boths sides have championed parent choice and school league tables, allied to a national curriculum, and the predictable result has been that pupils have been taught to pass the test (so the school scores better, etc) rather than actually teaching them.

BTW: I say this as a mathematician, but one who's very glad that my school also gave me an interest in history and other things not apparently related to what looked like being my career back then.
 
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