Upgrading from Vista to XP

[Bill Morris]

Here's a fun article: a rave review about Microsoft's "new" XP and what a welcome improvement it is over the "previous" ungainly Vista.

http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx

 

[zenophite]

i upgraded my laptop just recently.

 

[Flavius]

How much did MS charge you for that?

 

[FordSVT]

To be honest, I'm a little tired of the Vista bashing. Not because I love Microsoft so much, but because I've never had any real problems with it that couldn't be solved by adjusting a preference here and there, like every other OS I've ever used. If you've got some three year old, 1 gigabyte POS computer that's going to chug on it DON'T BUY THE UPGRADE! And if you've got an uber-computer and you still have major problems, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!

Then again, I've rarely had any problems with ANY operating systems I've had. I really think many of the problems people have are quite often of their own making: people tinker with the registry and edit program files and use obscure shareware and poorly supported programs and devices and then whine about Microsoft every time they fuck up their computer. "Waaah, Vista doesn't have an up-to-date driver for my favorite 13 year old Gravis GamePad!" And isn't it primarily the responsibility of the device manufacturer to create the appropriate drivers? I here people whining about the lack of Vista support for newer NVIDIA 3D cards but forget that it's NIVIDIA's fault for being so G-D lazy they waited until the last minute to even release beta versions!

I haven't seen the "blue screen of death" since the 1990s, I've never needed a recovery disk and I've never needed to re-image my computer. And I've been on the computer nearly every single day of life since the early 80s. What's wrong with some people? Bad luck?

People also seem to forget how miserable XP was before SP1, and SP1 for Vista is just around the corner.

 

[Flavius]

FordSVT said:
People also seem to forget how miserable XP was before SP1, and SP1 for Vista is just around the corner.

Does that tell you something? Tons of software for XP won't even install on a pre-SP version.

Well, in a world of MS operating systems NT does rule, still. I'm serious here. Not hard to kill, really, but robust in real life. If you take a box online, though - that's a different story. Make sure, you put in a request to the it / engineering department first.

They will send out bulletins on a regular basis to keep you posted.

 

[BriGuy]

Thank god I bought my computer before Vista came out, and not after like I had been planning at one point. Good thing I jumped for that Thanksgiving 2006 Black Friday special at Circuit City.

And thank goodness I've never used that free Vista "upgrade" that came with the computer.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

FordSVT said:If you've got some three year old, 1 gigabyte POS computer that's going to chug on it DON'T BUY THE UPGRADE!

My computer's almost 6 years old now with no upgrades other than ram. I recently upgraded it to Leopard, and if anything, it runs a little faster than the last version of OSX.

 

[Amaris]

After installing it on my system and running it every which way I could, I uninstalled it and went back to XP. I do miss features from Vista. You see, what I want is XP stability and compatibility with those extra Vista features that I enjoyed using. Vista by itself is just about on the same level as kludgeware. The thing is, I had Vista Ultimate, the supposed high end top of the line Windows operating system. It failed to enrapture me, suffice to say. $500+ would have been down the tube if I wasn't careful. Fortunately, I'm not that insane enough to pay $500+ for a piece of software, particularly a Windows Operating System.


J.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

What everyone fails to realize is that Vista is the future, whether you like it or not. XP support will end, computers will stop having it as an installed option, and in time, even hardware manufacturers will quit writing XP drivers.

With Vista, Microsoft deprecated their existing driver model (yet again) and the programming API (yet again). As drivers and software conform to the new standard, you'll have no choice but to switch to Vista. Or, you know, switch to Linux or Mac or Solaris or something.

I'll be curious to see how things stand in 2-3 years. Will Vista be a colossal failure, or will it work out the kinks and surpass XP? Either way, Microsoft's put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[Deks]

Vista is the future ?
That is hardly a fact.

XP is still going to be quite usable for some time after it's support ends.
And by then, I'm pretty sure someone (if not Microsoft) will make an OS for PC's that is actually the future OS.

Besides, we shall see if Microsoft will put any serious effort into Vista after the SP1.
Backward compatibility is one thing that Vista highly lacks.
And some people actually need that ability in an OS.

 

[Noname Given]

Robert Maxwell said:
What everyone fails to realize is that Vista is the future, whether you like it or not. XP support will end, computers will stop having it as an installed option, and in time, even hardware manufacturers will quit writing XP drivers.

With Vista, Microsoft deprecated their existing driver model (yet again) and the programming API (yet again). As drivers and software conform to the new standard, you'll have no choice but to switch to Vista. Or, you know, switch to Linux or Mac or Solaris or something.

I'll be curious to see how things stand in 2-3 years. Will Vista be a colossal failure, or will it work out the kinks and surpass XP? Either way, Microsoft's put all their eggs in one basket.

Um, no. Right now Vista's support cycle is set to end in 2012. Because of corporate user backlash, realize the the WindowsXP support cycle was EXTENDED to 2014. Also, if Vista was doing so well for MS; you WOULD NOT be seeing SP3 for Windows XP.

MS is doing all it can to try and salvage Vista (unlike Windows ME, which was pulled off the market after 6 moths and effectively disowned by MS); but it has also realized that Windows XP isn't going off many corporate or a large number of home PCs in the near future.

 

[BriGuy]

I was happily using W98SEat home until as recently as Nov. 2006.

I went from 98 to XP. I get the feeling skipping Vista will be like skipping ME - a good thing.

And I don't see my employer ever putting Vista on the machines here. They wouldn't want the problems.

 

[Sheep]

BriGuy said:
I was happily using W98SEat home until as recently as Nov. 2006.

My condolences.

I went from 98 to XP. I get the feeling skipping Vista will be like skipping ME - a good thing.

I have no real interest in Vista since XP SP2 does everything I want it to and is quite stable. I don't play PC games which is the only conceivable reason I would consider the bloated Vista.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Deks said:
Vista is the future ?
That is hardly a fact.

It's the future as far as Microsoft is concerned.

XP is still going to be quite usable for some time after it's support ends.
And by then, I'm pretty sure someone (if not Microsoft) will make an OS for PC's that is actually the future OS.

Nobody can force you to get rid of XP, obviously. However, Microsoft will end support, and so will hardware makers.

Microsoft has been in the desktop OS business for over 25 years. In that time, no one has managed to overtake them. It's not a testament to their quality processes, just their business savvy and monopolistic advantages. I don't see anyone upsetting that in the next few years.

Besides, we shall see if Microsoft will put any serious effort into Vista after the SP1.
Backward compatibility is one thing that Vista highly lacks.
And some people actually need that ability in an OS.

I agree, Vista's backwards compatibility leaves a lot to be desired. MS wanted to drop a lot of that for Vista, as part of a shift in development philosophy at the company. But they are by no means abandoning Vista.

 

[Amaris]

Robert Maxwell said:
What everyone fails to realize is that Vista is the future, whether you like it or not. XP support will end, computers will stop having it as an installed option, and in time, even hardware manufacturers will quit writing XP drivers.

With Vista, Microsoft deprecated their existing driver model (yet again) and the programming API (yet again). As drivers and software conform to the new standard, you'll have no choice but to switch to Vista. Or, you know, switch to Linux or Mac or Solaris or something.

I'll be curious to see how things stand in 2-3 years. Will Vista be a colossal failure, or will it work out the kinks and surpass XP? Either way, Microsoft's put all their eggs in one basket.

You know, this thread got me thinking. What if the newer patches have started to fix the problems I had with Vista when I last installed it? So I pulled out my Vista Ultimate DVD, backed up all of my data, and went for it.

The first time, Vista failed to install completely. It crashed while "Completing Installation" (it stayed on that for 2 hours). So I tried again, this time disabling the "update during installation" option, and it installed without a hitch.

The first thing Vista told me upon loading for the first time, was that I had no sound output. So I installed the driver from my motherboard's manufacturer CD. Boom. Driver installed, I had working sound 5 seconds later. Then Vista tells me my network is disconnected (I have wireless). I installed my USB wireless adapter driver from the Belkin CD. Boom. I have wireless network. I immediately go online and download all of my updates. After about 10 minutes, my system tells me it needs to restart. I hit okay, restart the system, and wait.

Vista loads at the main screen and I login. I login in 4 seconds. Curious, I loaded up Firefox. It loads in 2 seconds. I copy a file. This time, there's no initial prep where the copy bar just sits at the starting point for more than a minute at times, it just flies across the screen to 100% and says done. I unzip a large picture file. It takes 6 seconds (it took more than 6 minutes when I installed it last). I was floored.

It was apparent that the Microsoft Vista team had been working night and day to get the system working, and it is. I don't have the issues with unzip, the long wait times with copying a file, sound and network issues took seconds to fix instead of me fumbling around with everything for more than an hour, everything has a crisp snap when I load it, and my network isn't dropping every 30 seconds. I have to admit, I am thrilled to see Vista working on the same performance level as XP, and I hope this is doing the same for every other system running Vista.

Oh, and to top it all off, I disabled UAC.

So aside from a starting blunder (I should have remembered that my wireless adapter isn't in the driver file for Vista, even though my router is), everything went smoothly, and my system acts like it's brand new again. Now, I know when to admit I was wrong about something, and I have no problem doing so. I was wrong about Vista. There has been some serious work done to this OS since I had installed it last. I hope the system only gets better, just as I believe XP has done.


J.

 

[Saturn0660]

Makes me want to break out my old win3.11 floppies.. Ahhhh the good ol days..

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Noel Given said:

Robert Maxwell said:
What everyone fails to realize is that Vista is the future, whether you like it or not. XP support will end, computers will stop having it as an installed option, and in time, even hardware manufacturers will quit writing XP drivers.

With Vista, Microsoft deprecated their existing driver model (yet again) and the programming API (yet again). As drivers and software conform to the new standard, you'll have no choice but to switch to Vista. Or, you know, switch to Linux or Mac or Solaris or something.

I'll be curious to see how things stand in 2-3 years. Will Vista be a colossal failure, or will it work out the kinks and surpass XP? Either way, Microsoft's put all their eggs in one basket.

Um, no. Right now Vista's support cycle is set to end in 2012. Because of corporate user backlash, realize the the WindowsXP support cycle was EXTENDED to 2014. Also, if Vista was doing so well for MS; you WOULD NOT be seeing SP3 for Windows XP.

It's a bit disingenuous to compare Vista's "mainstream support" termination to XP's "extended support" termination. Yes, XP's extended support lasts until 2014. Vista doesn't even have a set date for its extended support to end, because it's brand new.

As for Vista's success, I didn't say it was being successful. It has a lot of problems MS needs to work out before it's ready for everyone. But MS is not abandoning it.

MS is doing all it can to try and salvage Vista (unlike Windows ME, which was pulled off the market after 6 moths and effectively disowned by MS); but it has also realized that Windows XP isn't going off many corporate or a large number of home PCs in the near future.

There is a huge, huge difference here. ME was nothing but a cash-in, a few bells and whistles bolted onto the aging 9x codebase while they got the kinks worked out of 2000 (to become XP). Microsoft has bet the farm on Vista. Even if it doesn't survive under that name, the development philosophy and architecture underlying Vista is the future of Microsoft's operating systems and application development. Love it or hate it, MS is going for a paradigm shift.

Corporate users aren't even that relevant in terms of adoption rates, since corporate desktops end up being some of the last systems that get upgraded. What matters more for corporate adoption is what's on the servers--will it be Vista's server counterpart (which I don't think is out yet), or something else?

I'm not a fan of Microsoft at all, I just think most people have a distorted idea of what Vista is and what it is supposed to accomplish for MS. Even if the Vista "brand" is a total failure, Microsoft is unlikely to abandon the underpinnings of the project.

I don't even use Vista myself, even though I have an upgrade DVD ready and waiting. I've used it occasionally on other systems. I don't hate it, but I'd rather wait for the first couple service packs.

Those who believe Vista is simply going to go away are, in my opinion, sadly mistaken.

 

[Noname Given]

saturn0660 said:
Makes me want to break out my old win3.11 floppies.. Ahhhh the good ol days..

Hey, give me DOS 3.3 - now there was a stable OS

And to the other poster I responded to ealier, above; I'm no fan of MS either but I do work in IT for a CA state organization, so when I mentioned 'corporate backlash' it was from MS's usual crop of early adopters who (after testing) decided 'no way'.

The fact is MS screwed the pooch to a degree with the way they tried to implement DRM (20% of your CPU cycles are devoted/reserved for DRM processing, whether you're playing a CD, DVD, etc. or not - that's one reason Vista runs slower overall vs XP on any hardware platform you care to use); as well as eliminating more of their previous backwards compatability (I like Steve Balmer would LOVE to see all the DOS and older 16-bit apps at my shop scrapped - but redevelopment costs big bucks, and upper management philosophy is - if it still does the job, why spend the money?) And as much as they'd like to believe otherwise a good portion of Corporate America feels the same.

But, be that as it may; I agree Vista will become the standard once the newest/hottest game that only runs under DX10 hits the selves. (Although, who knows - back in the day, MS swore up and down that a version of DX9 would NEVER be made available for Windows 98 - and used the same 'it's too complicated to adapt...' BS; but they eventually had a Win98 version - thus if a big MS Game fails to grab the market share MS would like, we may see a DX10 version for XP yet).

In the end though; and ater a thurough testing of Vista at home and at work (and we have no plans to go to Vista at work as yet); I also went back to XP. But again, the fact that nearly one year after Vista is out, MS is still doing SP3 for XP shows me that Vista did NOT do what MS hoped it would; and honestly, aside from a few graphical interface changes; Vista isn't really 'all that' - it's more a small code facelift of XP, with DRM toploaded on it; (much like Windows 98 was really STILL Windows 95 at its core).

I hope one day Steve Balmer will take his head out of his ass, and quit thinking that the general public will just blindly accept and buy whatever MS throws on the street. If you recall, while WXP did in fact work farely well out of the gate (and was the first true 'different' OS from a coding perspective than Win9X); MS tried to get home users to take multiple bites at the licensing 'apple' (no pun intended) by giving Home Users 5 'device upgades' (ie if you changed out more than 5 oieces of hardware you would have to pay MS for a new XP license to re-activate your copy of XP0 - but MS wisely dropped all that after consumer and corporate backlash.

But hey, it's also true that MS wouldn't be the juggernaut it is without Steve Balmer's marketing ploys; as we BOTH know that MS DOES NOT (and never has) written well constructed/lean and mean software.

 

[Alaedhros]

Robert Maxwell said:
Or, you know, switch to Linux or Mac or Solaris or something.

Done.

 

[BriGuy]

Sheep said:

BriGuy said:
I was happily using W98SEat home until as recently as Nov. 2006.

My condolences.

I went from 98 to XP. I get the feeling skipping Vista will be like skipping ME - a good thing.

I have no real interest in Vista since XP SP2 does everything I want it to and is quite stable. I don't play PC games which is the only conceivable reason I would consider the bloated Vista.

I do play games on my computer, and from what I understand, they would work worse - slower - on Vista than XP, so I count that as a reason to keep XP.

All my games are DX9, and my card is a 7900GS, so DX10 is not a thought. I'm impressed enough with how the likes of FEAR and Half Life 2 look with what I got.