Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by M, Mar 22, 2010.
^ I think Picard should have died INSTEAD OF Data.
^^^I think Data "dying" is gibberish. They just build a new copy. Data is effectively immortal, which makes him wanting to be human insane. As in sucidal, anyhow.
No, they can't make a copy. Even if they could make a copy, it still wouldn't be Data, even if the programming of the new android is exactly the same as Data. It's be a copy, NOT Data. But since you know, the programming of this new copy wouldn't even be the same, you wouldn't even have that.
Having Picard, the Captain of the Enterprise, die instead of Data would have been a more profound moment.
Just before Data fired his phaser I was thinking wait they have that B4 prototype sitting back on the ship.
Yes, that's what everyone was thinking, I'm pretty sure. It was an easy way out. If Bret decides he wants to continue, he can always play B4.
This movie was clearly the end of the TNG legacy in feature films. It should have gone out with a bang. Legacies end when the leader dies in some form or fashion. The leader falls from grace, the leaders loses their hold on power, their leader dies, etc.
In the Trek universe, I think it should when the leader dies. Picard should have died.
Faced with the improbable yet confounding situation of having to kill one's self and knowing that this clone is all that's left of his family legacy, Picard should have taken the ultimate act of heroism and destroyed himself to destroy this corrupt copy.
In fact, a younger Picard would have done just that. It was uncharacteristic of Picard, IMO, to have that pause of indecision.
Plus, the thing is named "B4." What is this, Lost in Space? A cheap, unfunny joke.
ST5: The final frontier is a lot more enjoyable to me and thus a much better movie than either ST1: The Slowmotion Picture, STVI: The Klingon Shakespeare parable and all of the TNG movies aside from First Contact.
STVI: The Undiscovered Country is without a doubt a vastly overrated film with a ton of plot holes, that is not just horribly dated, but even performs a major character assassination on the big three: Kirk and McCoy are turned into bigots, McCoy is drunk on his job and ends up killing his patient, and Spock performing a forced mind meld on Valeris, which is the vulcan equivalent of a rape.
I can't really see any redeeming value in this movie. Aside from klingons quoting shakespeare and the outdated cold war references, what really kills this movie for me is the lack of good Kirk/Spock/McCoy interaction that we found in the previous installments.
Eh... I wouldn't go that far. Because, if that were the case, then, as noted in this thread, Spock was already a serial rapist far before The Undiscovered Country (having mentally raped Kirk, McCoy, and a whale [it's doubtful that consent was given in that case], among others); while other Trek shows gave us such things as Soval "raping" a comatose guard at the instigation of Phlox and Trip, Tuvok crossing the line from "rough sex" to intentionally hurting his partner/victim ("Random Thoughts") during his investigation, and a Vulcan Maquis member uttering the line "We don't possess the Cardassian talent for inflicting pain... nor would we want such a talent" moments after trying to use "rape" as an interrogation technique on a prisoner.
Have you ever met someone who didn't have any kind of opinion when it comes to Star Trek? They,(meaning me!) just enjoyed it.
All fun talk of Vulcan 'rape' aside, my unpopular opinion is that third season eps like Way To Eden & Tholian Web are better than the hallowed Wrath Of Khan or First Contact. Yep I said that, and stand by it.
Only Leonard Nimoy had a real take on what made Trek work (Voyage Home).
Only Shatner had a feel for Trek's doofy moments (Row, row, row row your boat).
I think it would have been more emotionally satisfying if Picard had realized, after all the years of whinning that he had no family of his own, that the Enterprise crew and his friends there were his family. He then sacrifices himself in order to save the only family he's ever truly had.
I wouldn't have liked it if Picard died, but it wouldn't have felt like a cop-out like Data's death. Maybe it would have been neat if Data had given a really nice eulogy for Picard, proving in it that he finally learned what being human truly meant from Picard's example. It could be a nice reversal of Kirk's speaking about how his friend who wasn't human taught him about humanity.
I wouldn't mind Picard dying; it would have been interesting to see what they would have done with Riker, and the other characters.
I think it would have been a cop-out to do a 'Search for Picard' in the sequel...
As for Data, it would have made more impact if there wasn't a B-4, who I think is a poor character to begin with...
Yeah, and the fact there was a B4 meant why didn't they just send him?
I won't. Not ever. Not until charges are brought to bear on the one named Spock. An evil intellectual puppet of the Federation.
Khan's bangs were laffable in WOK.
Those are great story ideas.
Would Riker have still taken command of the Titan as schedule, at the end of the movie? In terms of story ideas, place a brand new Captain on board the Enterprise, would have been like when they regenerate Doctor Who. Giving command to Data, well Data is a know quantity, a new Captain we could watch being built up from scratch. No?
Unpopular opinions I have:
-Star Trek, as a whole, while entertaining, is not really good science-fiction.
-TWOK is not the gold standard for Trek everyone wishes it is.
-Retconning is a bad way to run a railroad.
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