Underworld: Rise of the Lycans -- Discussion, Review, Spoilers

[Captain Craig]

Well hey look at this. Not only is a weekday in January pulling in $1m+ totals but Rise of the Lycans has leaped over Blart to be #1 for Monday receipts! It took in $1.3m to bring its total to $22.2m on a $35m production budget. Its never released but based on past intel its believed no more than $20m was spent on marketing.

We could be well on our way to more Underworld tales!

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

If your looking for Kate Beckinsales Selene you will be dissapointed as her character doesn't show until 16/17th centuries. This movie features Sonja, the daughter to vampire lord Viktor to whom Selene reminded him. This film is set more in 13/14th centuries (they never give you a date)

Actually, we can figure out a rough date pretty easily from the information given in the 2nd movie. We learned from Tannis that Selene was turned about a year after the events of Rise of the Lycans. The reason why Viktor killed Selene's family was because, after Lucian started his Lycan rebellion, Viktor feared that Lucian might try to free William in some move of Lycan solidarity or something. Thus, he killed all of the humans that knew where William's prison was. Now, Selene looks like she was in her mid-20s or so when she was turned. So add about 15-20 years to the date given for the flashback at the beginning of Evolution when William was first captured.

BLOOD ENEMY has been pretty much rendered apocryphal by the new movie.

Shame too because, IMO, Blood Enemy is far superior to the new movie.

IMO, there is enough material left to still do another prequel. One that perhaps ends with the enslaving of William in that puzzle box constructed by Selene's father. Which of course would mean any Selene shown would be that of a 10yr old girl and not Kate.

I think that aspect of William's backstory was pretty well dealt with in Evolution. Actually, I think the most fruitful prequel possibilities would go back even further to the first forming of the Chain and establishing Viktor, Markus, & Amelia as the 3 elders. Call it, Underworld: Birth of the Immortals.

 

[Skywalker]

I thought that Rise of the Lycans, cheesy subtitle aside, was overall a pretty enjoyable movie, and in my opinion, a definite improvement over the somewhat underwhelming Evolution. For me, Lucian has been the series' most interesting character from the very beginning, so I was glad to see him taking the spotlight in this movie. It was also nice to see Raze's origins, though I'm somewhat curious as to how a black man ended up a slave somewhere in Eastern Europe in the middle of the Dark Ages. Oh well, maybe he was captured in Africa or something and eventually found himself up there.

I'd like to see another Underworld adventure, though if they do a sequel to Evolution (which seems the most likely to me), I'm curious as to who could be the villain. Viktor and Amelia are dead. Markus and William have been vanquished. Alexander Corvinus is gone (though he wasn't a villain). All that are left are basic vampires and lycans, who shouldn't be able to pose a threat to Michael or Selene, both of whom are now super-monsters.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

Leave all that to the books, comics, please. I enjoyed the movie well enough and more Nighy is always good, but I'm not really interested in another film where the majority of the main cast is certain to survive and every duel to the death between them ends in inevitable stalemate because they're all alive in the future movies. The first two films were much more exciting because no one but Selene (and Michael eventually) had an impenetrable character shield.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

The big question mark in the Underworld mythos is Amelia, the third Elder. We still know next to nothing about her. Maybe there's a prequel there?

I was hoping that we got to see Amelia, but I checked out both Underworld and Evolution today and I remembered Vicktor talking about their rules-1 elder awake and 2 asleep. It's possible by the time of ROTL, which had to have taken place after the prologue in Evolution that that rule had already been put in place.

In the original movie, Viktor said, "The Chain has never been broken, not once, not in 14 centuries." Rise of the Lycans takes place about 8 centuries ago. So the rule should already have been in place. (Although, Viktor's statement was somewhat contradicted when we saw all 3 elders awake at the same time hunting for William at the beginning of Evolution.)

Terrance Stamp isn't in Rise of the Lycans.

But perhaps he should be used as a villain in Underworld IV.

It was also nice to see Raze's origins, though I'm somewhat curious as to how a black man ended up a slave somewhere in Eastern Europe in the middle of the Dark Ages. Oh well, maybe he was captured in Africa or something and eventually found himself up there.

It reminds me of this Fox Kids series from the late 1990s, Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog. It was set in medieval Europe but, for PC's sake, included a token black character as part of the team. His introduction was something like, "I am Ivar from the land across the sea."

Still, it was really super-kickass to see Raze in the series again!

I enjoyed the movie since I'm a huge fan of the Underworld mythology. However, I was kinda disappointed because there wasn't a whole lot in the movie that we didn't already know from the 1st movie. It's not like the Star Wars prequels where Lucas had a broad canvas on which to flesh out such obscure details as the Clone Wars and such unknown characters as Anakin Skywalker & Padme. Underworld: Rise of the Lycans was pretty paint-by-numbers depicting the established backstory that was the entire basis for the original film.

Actually, one of my biggest disappointments in the film was that Kraven wasn't in it. I'd read some rumors a long time back that said that Shane Brolly signed up to be in it around the same time that they brought back Bill Nighy, Steven Mackintosh, & Kevin Grievoux. What gives?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

It reminds me of this Fox Kids series from the late 1990s, Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog. It was set in medieval Europe but, for PC's sake, included a token black character as part of the team. His introduction was something like, "I am Ivar from the land across the sea."

The same land as John Amos' character in Beastmaster and Wilt Chamerlain and Grace Jones in Conan the Destroyer, Marlon Wayans in Dungeons and Dragons and countless others.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^^Not to mention the funky geography in 10,000 B.C. The white man, as he moves south, encounters the lands of black people before he reaches Egypt.

One thing I didn't much care for in Underworld: Rise of the Lycans was the epilogue with Selene & Kraven.

 

[clint g]

i was shocked by how much i enjoyed this movie. I went in with incredibly low expectations and came out happy that I went. I would even say that I enjoyed this movie more than the second. Its plot was definitely easier to follow and who doesn't like a good uprising story?

it gets a B+ from me

 

[Greg Cox]

It was also nice to see Raze's origins, though I'm somewhat curious as to how a black man ended up a slave somewhere in Eastern Europe in the middle of the Dark Ages. Oh well, maybe he was captured in Africa or something and eventually found himself up there.

I believe that Kevin Grevioux is planning to cover Raze's backstory in an upcoming comic book series.

 

[Captain Craig]

The timeline I think is rather fluid, at least to me stilll.

In the original movie, Viktor said, "The Chain has never been broken, not once, not in 14 centuries." Rise of the Lycans takes place about 8 centuries ago. So the rule should already have been in place. (Although, Viktor's statement was somewhat contradicted when we saw all 3 elders awake at the same time hunting for William at the beginning of Evolution.)

Underworld & UW:Evolution = Modern day, 21st century
So 2001 - 1400 = 600A.D. roughly? This is when Corvinus and his immortals rose? Can we agree on that as a group?
How do we arrive at Lycans being 8 centuries ago? I don't recall any dialoge. Are we relying on the castle setting and serf/noble tribute as setting it in about 1200 A.D.
Does anyone recall when Lucian was allegedly killed by Kraven? Was a date given?
We know Selene banised Tanis 3 centuries ago, she tells Michael this when they go to find him. So his banishment would be around 1700A.D.
Leaving 500 years inbetween our uncertain 1200A.D. and Tanis' banishment around 1700A.D.

Greg Cox were you give a timeline for any of the novels or perhaps one has been "officially" developed for you to use in your writing?

It was also nice to see Raze's origins, though I'm somewhat curious as to how a black man ended up a slave somewhere in Eastern Europe in the middle of the Dark Ages. Oh well, maybe he was captured in Africa or something and eventually found himself up there.

I think we can safely say that Raze was brought up during any number of the Crusades? The European Catholics made a number of trips down there over that centuries long quest.

 

[Greg Cox]

I've never seen an official timeline or bible. The history of the Underworld is a work-in-progress; I learn something new every time I get a new movie script. I made the mistake of trying to pin down the exact dates in the early books, but have learned to keep things somewhat vague in order to accomodate future screenwriters. By my calculations, though, the new movie is set sometime in the 15th Century . . . .

 

[Mr Light]

Just saw it. I really liked the first two movies; a great combo of action of interesting story with a complex backstory mystery. Unfortunately this one I just found to be alright. Everything that made the first two interesting and unique aren't really here... the action is so-so and so quick chopped it's hard to see what's going on. There is no back story since this IS the back story. There's no mystery because we're already given the outline of events in previous movies. You already know the entire plot of the movie going in. Also, the plot is basically identical to the first movie: guy werewolf falls in love with Viktok's vampire daughter, Viktor gets mad, blood-letting ensues.

And Bill Nighy, who is one of my all time favorite actors, wasn't quite as quirky here as he usually is. I missed his angry reptilian eye blinks And was it just me or was Viktor a lot more overtly evil here than in the other movies?

One thing confused me, I don't know if it was a plot hole. When Lucien is watching Sonyia get toasted, he doesn't have a collar on. Why didn't they put a collar on him? Did they just assume the couple arrows they shot into him would keep him too weak to wolf-out? Why doesn't he wolf-out and save his love? He wolfs-out later after it's too late to help her.

Also, did Lucien realize that he wasn't killing Viktor? Did he intentionally let him live, or did he think that was a mortal injury?

So are they still going to make a fourth movie starring Beckinsale and Speedman? I'd still love to see that.

 

[Greg Cox]

One thing confused me, I don't know if it was a plot hole. When Lucien is watching Sonyia get toasted, he doesn't have a collar on. Why didn't they put a collar on him? Did they just assume the couple arrows they shot into him would keep him too weak to wolf-out? Why doesn't he wolf-out and save his love? He wolfs-out later after it's too late to help her.

Also, did Lucien realize that he wasn't killing Viktor? Did he intentionally let him live, or did he think that was a mortal injury?

So are they still going to make a fourth movie starring Beckinsale and Speedman? I'd still love to see that.

Those were silver arrowheads embedded in Lucian's back, which kept him from changing until he finally managed to squeeze them out (in a nod to that scene in the first movie when extruded the silver bullets). I guess he needed the full moon to rise before he could pull of that stunt for the first time.

And I'm assuming Lucian thought that he had killed Viktor. Unfortunately, he was too emotionally and physically exhausted by the end of the movie to make sure Viktor was dead. (Or at least that's how I wrote the scene.)

Nothing definite has been announced regarding UNDERWORLD 4 yet. Seems to me that they have at least two options: continue Selene's story or do another prequel picking up where this one left off.

I'm curious: which option most appeals to people?

 

[Captain Craig]

One thing confused me, I don't know if it was a plot hole. When Lucien is watching Sonyia get toasted, he doesn't have a collar on. Why didn't they put a collar on him? Did they just assume the couple arrows they shot into him would keep him too weak to wolf-out? Why doesn't he wolf-out and save his love? He wolfs-out later after it's too late to help her.

Had this discussion with my friend. Here is what we concluded.
They make a point to show us that its sunny, hence Sonja gets toasted.
They made a point to show us the sun going down.
When Viktor comes in later in the evening and says something to the affect "fetch me my knives" to some off screen lackey they intentionally show us the full moon.
Luciean then wolfs out.

At this point the moon/darkness is still a necessary aid in wolfing out it seems. We know from Selene's voiceover at the start of UW:1 that "they've now learned to transform at will without the aid of the moon". Apparently they aren't there yet.
That's what we came up with. Thoughts?

 

[DarKush]

Mr. Cox,

I think the Underworld story should move forward. I don't think another prequel is necessary. As I said before novels and comics could flesh out Selene's earlier adventures.

Hopefully they can get Kate back into the leather for one more outing.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm not interested in any more prequels as we're already going to know what's going on (except for Amelia). I definitely want to see the future, where things go with super Selene and Michael in charge as it were.

 

[Captain Craig]

Rise of the Lycans took a hard 65% weekend-to-weekend drop to place #7 over the three days. It took in an estimated $7.2 million to bring its total to $32.7m on a $35m budget.
My spin would be that it faced rising Oscar candidates(Torino,Slumdog) and direct horror competition in Taken and Uninvited.
Now why people keep shelling out $10 a pop for Paul Blart just surprises me. It may very well make me laugh when I see it but its a RENTER. No element of that movie will be enhanced by seeing it on the big screen. Which is a criteria for 95% of the movies I pay $10.

I think the Underworld story should move forward. I don't think another prequel is necessary.
Hopefully they can get Kate back into the leather for one more outing.

One could debate the neccessity of this prequel but it was still worth having it fleshed out imo.
I'm all for more Kate though at some point.

I'm not interested in any more prequels as we're already going to know what's going on (except for Amelia). I definitely want to see the future, where things go with super Selene and Michael in charge as it were.

I would be interested in another well done prequel. Lycans gave us more insight to the snipets in the prior films and there are still snipets left. The Kraven/Lucian deal. Amelia's departure to the "colonies" and Selene exiling Tanis. Maybe Marcus is awake during this time frame.

I too am curious about the new Daywalker Selene and Hybrid Michael but since they defeated the "big bads" of the Underworld already I imagine the stories would be less exciting than post-ROTJ material.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

The timeline I think is rather fluid, at least to me stilll.

In the original movie, Viktor said, "The Chain has never been broken, not once, not in 14 centuries." Rise of the Lycans takes place about 8 centuries ago. So the rule should already have been in place. (Although, Viktor's statement was somewhat contradicted when we saw all 3 elders awake at the same time hunting for William at the beginning of Evolution.)

Underworld & UW:Evolution = Modern day, 21st century
So 2001 - 1400 = 600A.D. roughly? This is when Corvinus and his immortals rose? Can we agree on that as a group?

I think so. Not only does it jive with Viktor's "not in 14 centuries" remark but I believe it also kinda fits in with what Singe said in the 1st movie.

How do we arrive at Lycans being 8 centuries ago? I don't recall any dialoge. Are we relying on the castle setting and serf/noble tribute as setting it in about 1200 A.D.

Like I said earlier, the prologue in Evolution gave the date 1202 A.D. That was when William was captured. Presumably, this somehow coincides with Selene's father building William's prison. We know Selene was alive for this as a young girl. Selene looks to be no later than mid-30s when she was turned when Viktor killed the rest of her family. Tannis said that this happened during "the winter of Lucian's escape." So, I'd put Rise of the Lycans at somewhere between 1212-1232 A.D.

 

[dragunzng]

Not a fan of the Underworld movies but I went to see this anyway.

Boy was I surprised. It was so. much. fun! My main problem with the Underworld movies was the simple fact that they went and put guns in the hands of the Vampires and Werewolves, I mean really what's the point? Needless to say that didn't apply to this. I had a smile on my face the whole time, might go back for a second viewing.

 

[Bad Bishop]

I watched Underworld: Rise of the Lycans last night. I didn't expect to see Kate Beckinsale as Selene, but there she was at the ending. Was it a clip from one of the earlier films? Or did Kate really work on Rise of the Lycans, however briefly? The filmmakers' commentary track doesn't really make it clear either way.