Understanding the Sith

[EmoBorg]

I was thinking about the motivation of the Sith.

Palpatine says that there is almost no difference between the Sith and The Jedi. The Sith tend to be more open minded about the using the force including the dark side which includes the ability to to prolong life which many consider unnatural.

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Palpatine said the Jedi had a dogmatic and narrow view of the force. By accessing the so called dark side, one could grow more powerful.

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From my understanding, the so called dark side was a term invented by the Jedi.

The Jedi and the Sith are followers and users of the Force. They belong to the same religion. The difference is that the Jedi are trained not to interfere in the affairs of others and only do so if requested. For example the Jedi council advised the Senate of the Republic and went to the planets of the Republic when requested.

The Sith are interested in the affairs of others because as natural force users, they feel they could help run things better than non force sensitive people. They actually want to help but on their own terms. Hence taking over the Republic and transforming it into an Empire where things can get done quickly.


The Sith are just passionate folks. The Jedi are trained to control their emotions while the Sith embrace theirs. As a result the Sith are perhaps more devoted to the Force than the Jedi.

 

[dahj]

I think it's more along the lines of... Sith evil, Jedi good.

Fire bad, tree pretty.

 

[Kor]

Palpatine was using smooth words to get Anakin on his side.

The Sith are big on gaining power and control for their own ends, not abiding by the will of "The Force" or letting "The Force" flow through you.

And their usage of "The Force" leads to evil deeds as well as ravaging of their own bodies.

Kor

 

[Gryffindorian]

Also, the Sith thrive on dark emotions like anger, fear, hate. The Jedi are trained to be stoic, almost like Vulcans on Star Trek.

 

[EmoBorg]

Palpatine was using smooth words to get Anakin on his side.

The Sith are big on gaining power and control for their own ends, not abiding by the will of "The Force" or letting "The Force" flow through you.

And their usage of "The Force" leads to evil deeds as well as ravaging of their own bodies.

Kor

What do you mean by the will of the Force or letting the Force flow through you ? By what i understand that is how Luke came to use the force. If anything it means that you discover and learn the ability to use the Force. I am sure the Sith do the same.

 

[EmoBorg]

Also, the Sith thrive on dark emotions like anger, fear, hate. The Jedi are trained to be stoic, almost like Vulcans on Star Trek.

That is true. The Sith tend to be more on the passionate side.

 

[Skywalker]

The Sith abuse and pervert the Force for their own selfish ends. The Jedi give themselves to the Force and work with it to achieve harmony in both themselves and the galaxy at large.

 

[EmoBorg]

The Sith abuse and pervert the Force for their own selfish ends. The Jedi give themselves to the Force and work with it to achieve harmony in both themselves and the galaxy at large.

It is very easy to say that the Sith abuse and pervert the force and the Jedi don't. If i recall correctly, Luke did use a force choke on the guard in ROTJ. It just shows that the Jedi can use the same powers as the Sith. The Sith are just more willing to explore the force beyond the narrow approach of the Jedi. Palpatine did say that a Sith did find a way to create life by using the force.

 

[Skywalker]

It is very easy to say that the Sith abuse and pervert the force and the Jedi don't. If i recall correctly, Luke did use a force choke on the guard in ROTJ. It just shows that the Jedi can use the same powers as the Sith. The Sith are just more willing to explore the force beyond the narrow approach of the Jedi. Palpatine did say that a Sith did find a way to create life by using the force.

Luke using the Force to choke those guards was an example of the dark path he was treading by that point in his life. He was misusing the Force for his own personal gain. Ultimately he rejected that self-destructive path.

 

[Dude]

Luke using the Force to choke those guards was an example of the dark path he was treading by that point in his life. He was misusing the Force for his own personal gain. Ultimately he rejected that self-destructive path.

How is this for his personal gain? I don't see it as different than slashing him in half with a lightsaber and tactically, choking him was smarter. The force lightning I can see as evil because it's being tortured to death.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The universe doesn't give a shit about "human" morality.

The Emperor isn't ravaged by dark force use, he is burnt from shooting himself during his fight with Mace Windoo.

Creating life = Virgence in the force?

If the universe cares, maybe if the Galaxy cares about planets spinning around stars, then the balance of the force can be tipped by removing gravity rendering planets from play, and the billions of... Do nonsentient animals and insects have force sensitivity? Imagine if a sparrow was only a 100 times less force sensitive than Han Solo, who is maybe only a thousand times less force sensitive than Luke or Vader... How many hundred million sparrows live on any one planet, or what planet with air doesn't have a trillion-trillion minutely slightly force sensitive cockroaches?

Blowing up planets, is like manipulating rivers with dams and ducts, it alters how the force flows through the galaxy. Blowing up particular planets could make areas of the galaxy that should be dense with force users, void of force users, which is following a plot maybe to determine a racial agenda to stop the wrong kind of aliens, or specially politically aligned planets from having force sensitives.

Yes, I'm talking about what the Death Star might have been really for,

 

[Reverend]

As I understand it the fundamental difference between a Jedi and a Sith is that the former uses the force in a selfless manner while the latter uses it for selfish ends.

By it's very nature you can't use the light side and be selfish as it requires you to surrender too much of your self as well as a certain emotional serenity. The dark side on the other hand uses raw, focused emotion (which makes it easy for anyone to access) but while it doesn't require a surrender of self, it does actively consume and feed back into the user.

Spoiler: The Force Awakens

Which makes Kylo Ren's struggle with being pulled towards the light side somewhat confusing. By their very nature they shouldn't work that way around. I mean a I get that a person at a psychological level can be conflicted and of two minds about their path, but the force isn't supposed ot be a passive reflection of a person's mental state, there's feedback there too. I kind of liken the dark side to quicksand, the more you struggle the more it pulls you down and only a still and serene mind can overcome it. Kylo is anything but serene.

I do hope it's not a case of Snoke using a very powerful mind-trick on him or something. That'd be massively disappointing.

There are some other implied differences like their beliefs surrounding death and the netherworld. Mostly it's just an extension of the selfless/selfish thing with the Jedi believing in the cycle of cosmic and living force while the Sith don't seem to differentiate the two and just see death as oblivion, which is why they cling so tightly to life, at the cost of all else.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Let's say this good/bad bullshit Lucas fed us as children is as complex as it gets. That there are two poles of absolute evil and absolute good who take their insistence to carry though on their mission to the highest extreme always. The good to the good, and the bad to the bad.

Now, although I may be describing a cartoon of Sith that Jjedi Masters tell their younglins to ascertain modified pleasant behaviour and the eating of gruel humbly when every one else can afford space turkey... It does not describe the Jedi.

The Jedi preach calm and passionlessness.

They are not a zealous force for righteous good.

They are contemplative inactionary bandaid blandly bent to keep the status quo fixed soe place calm and still.

(Are you with me? Do you see where I'm going?)

If the Sith are the dark extreme of force users, and the Jedi are the middle of the road conscientious fence sitters, then we've never actually met the Siths equal and opposite, the uncompromising fuckers who are willing to blow up planets in the name of goodiness.

There's a third group.

Lucas you ####ing holdout.

 

[Reverend]

^That would just be more dark siders by another name. Does it matter what banner you're waving while you slaughter millions> It's still slaughter. Indeed, most evil acts in real history have been done under the pretence of "the greater good", at least so far as the perpetrators saw it.

Now true amorality is a whole other thing. Nature (and by extension the living force?) is basically amoral. Mass slaughter as in inconsequential side effect of a dispassionate string of cause and effect good or evil, it just is. A tsunami doesn't seek to gain anything (other than momentum) and an asteroid doesn't care if it keeps on drifting in circles for another billion years or smacks straight into that damp rock covered in squiggly organic things.

This sounds a lot more like Jedi to me than Sith. A Jedi won't seek vengeance against you if you do them violence, but they'll still cut you in half if necessary.

 

[EmoBorg]

As I understand it the fundamental difference between a Jedi and a Sith is that the former uses the force in a selfless manner while the latter uses it for selfish ends.

By it's very nature you can't use the light side and be selfish as it requires you to surrender too much of your self as well as a certain emotional serenity. The dark side on the other hand uses raw, focused emotion (which makes it easy for anyone to access) but while it doesn't require a surrender of self, it does actively consume and feed back into the user.

Spoiler: The Force Awakens

Which makes Kylo Ren's struggle with being pulled towards the light side somewhat confusing. By their very nature they shouldn't work that way around. I mean a I get that a person at a psychological level can be conflicted and of two minds about their path, but the force isn't supposed ot be a passive reflection of a person's mental state, there's feedback there too. I kind of liken the dark side to quicksand, the more you struggle the more it pulls you down and only a still and serene mind can overcome it. Kylo is anything but serene.

I do hope it's not a case of Snoke using a very powerful mind-trick on him or something. That'd be massively disappointing.

There are some other implied differences like their beliefs surrounding death and the netherworld. Mostly it's just an extension of the selfless/selfish thing with the Jedi believing in the cycle of cosmic and living force while the Sith don't seem to differentiate the two and just see death as oblivion, which is why they cling so tightly to life, at the cost of all else.

The Light Side and Dark Side is something the Jedi made up and Sith also use those terms because the Sith themselves are former Jedi and so they share the same lexicon. It is how you use the force for what reason that differentiate Jedi from Sith.

When Anakin murdered the Tusken Raiders after his mother died, he was perhaps already a Dark Jedi.

The Jedi are trained to control their emotions to prevent them from using the Force for selfish reasons. They will kill to defend themselves but they will not murder in cold blood. The Sith tend to embrace their emotions. They are more willing to use the force in more creative ways using their emotions.

 

[Reverend]

I've never liked the term "Dark Jedi" as it's something of a contradiction in terms. It's like saying "greedy philanthropist" or perhaps more aptly: "evil saint". The terms are diametrically opposed. A Jedi who falls to the dark side are *by definition* no longer Jedi.

General Krell, Asajj Ventress and Barris Offee were all trained as Jedi, but they all betrayed the principles of the Jedi when they turned to the dark side and ceased to be Jedi. Krell especially was clearly only playing the part of a Jedi General on the surface (are barely at that) by the time Rex sussed out what was going on he was clearly not a Jedi any longer.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

It is very easy to say that the Sith abuse and pervert the force and the Jedi don't. If i recall correctly, Luke did use a force choke on the guard in ROTJ. It just shows that the Jedi can use the same powers as the Sith. The Sith are just more willing to explore the force beyond the narrow approach of the Jedi. Palpatine did say that a Sith did find a way to create life by using the force.

Well, that's kind of the whole point, though, isn't it? Choice. What the Jedi choose to do with their abilities, v. what the Sith choose to do. The Sith have no qualms about using their abilities to commit murder, for example. The Jedi do have qualms (though, notably, that doesn't stop them from ever killing). Still, the decisions in how they choose to use their Force abilities represent the fundamental difference between Jedi and Sith.

 

[RoJoHen]

I think it's more of a "power corrupts" kind of thing, and the Sith are totally cool with it. The more powerful one becomes, the less they care about how their actions affect "lesser" people. Once you head down the dark path, it's more and more difficult to find your way back to the light. The Jedi understand this, which is why they start training at such a young age. People with Force powers will ultimately succumb to their darker impulses if they don't learn to control their emotions.

 

[wulfio]

The Jedi are christian fundamentalists. The Sith are what christian fundamentalists think people would be without religion.

 

[Set Harth]

The Emperor isn't ravaged by dark force use, he is burnt from shooting himself during his fight with Mace Windoo.

"The Emperor that you see in the last film looks the way he does because he's very old and very evil - it is what he always looked like. He just had this carapace of looking like a fairly ordinary looking guy, a politician that smiled a bit, and so on."
- Ian McDiarmid

The Light Side and Dark Side is something the Jedi made up

We are given to understand that the Jedi view of the Force as expressed in the films is a correct view. Authors sometimes need to use characters to provide generally reliable exposition.

There are some other implied differences like their beliefs surrounding death and the netherworld. Mostly it's just an extension of the selfless/selfish thing with the Jedi believing in the cycle of cosmic and living force while the Sith don't seem to differentiate the two and just see death as oblivion, which is why they cling so tightly to life, at the cost of all else.

Well, the Jedi believe that the dead pass into the Cosmic Force and lose their individuality. To the Sith POV this would pretty much be tantamount to oblivion. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.