Underappreciated Trilogies

[DigificWriter]

Hi, all. I'm starting this thread because I want to talk about/discuss blatantly interconnected 3-film sagas (trilogies) that don't get as much love/appreciation as (IMO) they should.

I was specifically inspired to start this thread after receiving the Ultimate Matrix Collection as a Christmas present (one which was asked for and highly anticipated), but didn't want to restrict the discussion solely to the Matrix films, the second and third of which I think are infinitely better than they're perceived to be and, IMO, are really only criticized because general audiences and critics didn't/don't understand what the Wachowskis were actually doing with their narrative.

I'm still in the middle of what is essentially my first viewing of The Matrix Reloaded (I've seen pieces of both this movie and The Matrix Revolutions previously), but have enough of a knowledge of where the storyline of the trilogy ultimately ends up that I feel like I can offer an opinion on the Trilogy as a whole, which I feel really is a genius subversion of the typical "hero's journey" narrative trope and the /"Western Superhero film" genre (not to mention a Transgender allegory, a Biblical allegory, and a Philosophical treatise as well).

In crafting the story of the Matrix Trilogy the way that they did, the Wachowskis are telling a superhero story in which said superhero FAILS to accomplish what he's been told he's going to do/sets out to do, consequently creating something that is, IMO, far more interesting than the myriad of other superhero films we've seen come out in the past 20+ years because it gives us a hero whose actions are pointless in the "here and now" but have incredibly far-reaching consequences.

It's actually very reminiscent of what Ronald D. Moore and David Eick and their writers did in crafting the finale of Battlestar Galactica, and, honestly, is a breath of fresh air in what's become a very crowded - and formulaic - genre.

Now I invite other people to chime in with their own thoughts on the Matrix Trilogy (although I ask that conversation remain positive) and on other Trilogies that they feel don't get as much appreciation as they ought to.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think the Matrix sequels had a lot of interesting ideas in them, but the writers got so obsessed with twisting it all up in surprising and 'sophisticated' ways that they pretty much ruined it. Especially after going to so much trouble trying to top the action of the original that they basically made the story feel completely secondary to the ridiculous car chases and cartoonish martial arts sequences. Also, in the first movie Agent Smith was an amazing villain and Neo's victory was awe inspiring. In the third movie, Smith was a bad cliche and Neo's victory was entirely dependent on his enemy being a complete idiot.

 

[DonIago]

Thread already exists: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/less-than-popular-movie-trilogies.284948/

 

[DigificWriter]

Thread already exists: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/less-than-popular-movie-trilogies.284948/

That thread has a similar premise in theme, but the discussion hasn't really gotten as in-depth as I was hoping this one would, so I'll leave it up to the Mods to decide what to do with this one.

 

[Neroon]

I am going to leave this thread in place, since it's in a different forum altogether. You probably should have simply continued discussion in the thread in TV & Media, so just keep that in mind for the future.

 

[DigificWriter]

@Neroon: I really didn't know about the existence of the other thread, or I wouldn't have created this one.

Anyways, with the thread staying open, I wanted to mention another Sci-Fi/Fantasy 3-film saga that I would consider to be underrated: The Burton/Schumacher Batman trilogy of Batman '89, Batman Returns, and Batman Forever.

Yes, I know that Batman and Robin technically makes the franchise a Quadrilogy, but Batman Forever offers such a great sense of closure in terms of Bruce Wayne's personal character journey - and doesn't make a mockery of the character of Batman the way that BaR does - that I prefer to ignore BaR's existence completely.

 

[retroenzo]

Hi, all. I'm starting this thread because I want to talk about/discuss blatantly interconnected 3-film sagas (trilogies) that don't get as much love/appreciation as (IMO) they should.

I was specifically inspired to start this thread after receiving the Ultimate Matrix Collection as a Christmas present (one which was asked for and highly anticipated), but didn't want to restrict the discussion solely to the Matrix films, the second and third of which I think are infinitely better than they're perceived to be and, IMO, are really only criticized because general audiences and critics didn't/don't understand what the Wachowskis were actually doing with their narrative.

I'm still in the middle of what is essentially my first viewing of The Matrix Reloaded (I've seen pieces of both this movie and The Matrix Revolutions previously), but have enough of a knowledge of where the storyline of the trilogy ultimately ends up that I feel like I can offer an opinion on the Trilogy as a whole, which I feel really is a genius subversion of the typical "hero's journey" narrative trope and the /"Western Superhero film" genre (not to mention a Transgender allegory, a Biblical allegory, and a Philosophical treatise as well).

In crafting the story of the Matrix Trilogy the way that they did, the Wachowskis are telling a superhero story in which said superhero FAILS to accomplish what he's been told he's going to do/sets out to do, consequently creating something that is, IMO, far more interesting than the myriad of other superhero films we've seen come out in the past 20+ years because it gives us a hero whose actions are pointless in the "here and now" but have incredibly far-reaching consequences.

It's actually very reminiscent of what Ronald D. Moore and David Eick and their writers did in crafting the finale of Battlestar Galactica, and, honestly, is a breath of fresh air in what's become a very crowded - and formulaic - genre.

Now I invite other people to chime in with their own thoughts on the Matrix Trilogy (although I ask that conversation remain positive) and on other Trilogies that they feel don't get as much appreciation as they ought to.

I actually agree with you on this and love the whole Matrix saga, although I like to include the AniMatrix (particularly Final Flight of the Osiris) and the Enter the Matrix game too. I admit that the game wasn't the best at the time but I remember getting completely wrapped up in the storyline, determined to get to the end of it to find out how it all tied into the movies. The sequels also contain some of my favourite scenes from the whole series. I know that some of the effects look a little shonky now but the freeway chase in Reloaded will always be one of my favourite action scenes, not just in The Matrix, but in all movies - I'm sure that part of my DVD would have worn out first as I'd sometimes put the disc in *just* to watch that scene. My only real issue with The Matrix sequels was in the segments in Zion. Personally I felt they went on a bit too long, especially the battle for Zion in Revolutions.

I don't know if I'd think of The Matrix trilogy as being underappreciated though as the first movie was massive, even to those that don't necessarily like the sequels. As for underappreciated trilogies, I have a bit of a soft spot for the Death Race films. I even bought the DVD box set. I was absolutely convinced that they'd have brought out a Death Race game as it seemed tailor made to a video game.

I also quite liked the Jason Statham Transporter films. Mindless action admittedly but so much fun. I don't like the new one or the TV series but the ones with Jason Statham were great.

 

[DigificWriter]

I actually agree with you on this and love the whole Matrix saga, although I like to include the AniMatrix (particularly Final Flight of the Osiris) and the Enter the Matrix game too. I admit that the game wasn't the best at the time but I remember getting completely wrapped up in the storyline, determined to get to the end of it to find out how it all tied into the movies. The sequels also contain some of my favourite scenes from the whole series. I know that some of the effects look a little shonky now but the freeway chase in Reloaded will always be one of my favourite action scenes, not just in The Matrix, but in all movies - I'm sure that part of my DVD would have worn out first as I'd sometimes put the disc in *just* to watch that scene. My only real issue with The Matrix sequels was in the segments in Zion. Personally I felt they went on a bit too long, especially the battle for Zion in Revolutions.

I don't know if I'd think of The Matrix trilogy as being underappreciated though as the first movie was massive, even to those that don't necessarily like the sequels. As for underappreciated trilogies, I have a bit of a soft spot for the Death Race films. I even bought the DVD box set. I was absolutely convinced that they'd have brought out a Death Race game as it seemed tailor made to a video game.

I also quite liked the Jason Statham Transporter films. Mindless action admittedly but so much fun. I don't like the new one or the TV series but the ones with Jason Statham were great.

The reason I consider the Matrix Trilogy to be underappreciated is precisely what you mention: the first film is beloved while its sequels are dismissed.

My personal favorite scenes from Reloaded are the revelatory conversation between Neo and the Architect (which is genius for the fact that it completely turns everyone's expectations about Neo's hero's journey on their head) and the bookended scenes of Trinity in the Matrix that open the film and kick off its ending, but there really is a lot to love about the movie on the whole.

 

[Neroon]

@Neroon: I really didn't know about the existence of the other thread, or I wouldn't have created this one.

Anyways, with the thread staying open, I wanted to mention another Sci-Fi/Fantasy 3-film saga that I would consider to be underrated: The Burton/Schumacher Batman trilogy of Batman '89, Batman Returns, and Batman Forever.

Yes, I know that Batman and Robin technically makes the franchise a Quadrilogy, but Batman Forever offers such a great sense of closure in terms of Bruce Wayne's personal character journey - and doesn't make a mockery of the character of Batman the way that BaR does - that I prefer to ignore BaR's existence completely.

Completely understandable. Both forums are prolific, so it's easy to have similar topics in each.

 

[theenglish]

The Matrix trilogy is one of my all time favorites too. I love how the second and third films are basically high budget "art house" movies that made it into mainstream cinemas. It was no surprise that they were not received as well by the general public.

People often mention the Christian allegories in the movies but there is a lot of Hinduism influence as well. The Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and the cycle of destruction and creation, for example. I really think there is a lot more going on in these films regarding our simultaneous need as a species to preserve the status quo and to break it in order to create something new, and the idea of how much of the world we know is in our own perceptions and point of view and how much (if any) exists objectively.

As for other underrated movie series--it is not really a series but I loved the Phantasm films. Great B movie fun long before Supernatural ever came along.

 

[Noname Given]

I very much enjoyed the first two Matrix films. The third I thought was just garbage and was rather disappointing and anti-climatic. I'll be honest and say I don't know if it's major scripting issues were caused by the fact the original Oracle actress died before the third film was completed; but yeah, Matrix Revolutions was a waste of time (IMO).

 

[JD]

I'm another big fan of all three Matrix movies, although I never have gotten a chance to buy the last one. They had great action scenes, and I thought there was a really interesting story with some neat ideas to go along with them.
There are actually four movies, soon to be five, but I still have to mention Pirates of the Carribean. I love all four movies.

 

[DigificWriter]

On my Letterboxd account today I reviewed The Matrix Reloaded and gave the film 4 1/2 stars out of 5; it really is a great sequel that successfully ups the ante from the first film while also simultaneously flipping everything we thought we knew from the first film on its head.

 

[theenglish]

I very much enjoyed the first two Matrix films. The third I thought was just garbage and was rather disappointing and anti-climatic. I'll be honest and say I don't know if it's major scripting issues were caused by the fact the original Oracle actress died before the third film was completed; but yeah, Matrix Revolutions was a waste of time (IMO).

For me, I like the third movie very much--but it has problems in pacing--the unrelenting action scenes just go on too long and pad out a much thinner story line than the first two movies.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I love The Matrix but I thought the sequels were empty CGI fluff and I haven't bothered with them in many years. I thought The Animatrix dealt with the thematic issues better, as well as the short run of comics that were produced (which, incidentally, introduced me to Neil Gaiman).

On the flip side, The Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy is often derided by movie goers, but I love all three (On Stranger Tides, however, is weak) and I still love At World's End the most. Things may have gotten unwieldy towards the end, but I've always found everything held up well enough.

 

[Mage]

I mentioned somewhere else on this forum yesterday, that people find flaws in movies, and keep hammering on about them too much. Yes, Matrix 2 and 3 have flaws. But all in, there is plenty to be found in the whole trilogy to make it a compelling story with good themes on choice and predetermination. That it got bogged down here and there sucks, but that doesn't mean the good elements should be ignored.

 

[Beagleman]

On the flip side, The Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy is often derided by movie goers, but I love all three (On Stranger Tides, however, is weak) and I still love At World's End the most. Things may have gotten unwieldy towards the end, but I've always found everything held up well enough.

Totally agree.
Give the Matrix sequels another chance, watch them as really pretty yet often shallow exercises in pseudo-philosophy and they'll be fun four hours to waste.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Or watch them as the subversion of the superhero film genre that they are and were always intended to be.

 

[DonIago]

It's ironic that you use the phrase "intended to be" at the same time as your signature includes a quote with the phrase "There is no 'supposed to be.'"

 

[DigificWriter]

@DonIago The quote in my signature refers specifically to the notion that there is no "correct" way that something can be adapted, and has nothing to do with the Wachowskis' clear narrative intent regarding the Matrix Trilogy, which is a clear subversion of typical superhero films in addition to being many other things as well.

Anyway, I wanted to bring up Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy, which I would call "underappreciated" because of the undeserved disdain that people seem to continue to hold towards Spider-Man 3, which, although not the film that it could've been without Avi Arad's interference, isn't quite the trainwreck it's perceived to be, and holds together quite well in spite of Raimi's resistance towards using the character of Venom, who, honestly, isn't all that interesting (IMO) as anything other than as a "narrative device"/"means to an end", which is how Raimi ultimately used him.