U.S. Needs To Prepare For An EMP Attack or CME Event

[cooleddie74]

^

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I just wanted to make sure to give you the answer you politely requested, that's all.

Please continue.

Actually I am curious about this:

It has been estimated that 300-500,000 Americans would be killed in the hours immediately after an EMP attack over the Eastern portion of the U.S.

Are you referring to casualties caused by the failure of power supplies in hospitals? Automobiles wrecking and killing their drivers and passengers? Deaths related to a sudden and catastrophic lack of electric power to run life support systems, transportation and the like? Because that's the impression I've always had of the casualties from an EMP attack. No actual blast casualties but deaths resulting from the sudden and violent deprival of modern power sources. Refrigeration. Medical care. Transportation. Those sorts of things.

 

[Knight Templar]

^

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I just wanted to make sure to give you the answer you politely requested, that's all.

Please continue.

No. You are wrong. You are lying. And I have proof.

Are you now claiming that I've managed to subvert the board so I can edit posts without them appearing to be edited?

Are you claiming that posts can be changed in any way after appearing on the board without being labeled as "edited by"?

You owe me an apology for openly claiming that I posted something that I did not. Especialy given that I have incontrovertible proof (the board software itself) that says I'm telling the truth and you are not.

 

[Trekker4747]

I'm pretty sure the board lets you edit a post without it being tagged as edited if the edit happens relatively soon after the initial posting.

For example, I just did it.

Wrote that first sentence and posted it.

Came back and posted the next sentence. No tag of an edit.

Came back made some formatting corrections and posted these last three sentences and...

What do you know?! No edit tag.

And.....

No edit tag! And it's been 5 minutes.

 

[cooleddie74]

For the record if you change a post within just a minute or so after first putting it on the boards it doesn't even show that it's been edited at all. That's how my own posts work...if I change them immediately after posting them then there's no indicator and timestamp at the bottom that it was ever altered. It's only if you wait a little while or longer that it shows up for others to see.

But you know what? Fine. If it'll make you happy...if I was wrong? If I'm mistaking your post about the container ship and launcher for someone else's? I apologize. I'm sorry. My bad. Mea culpa.



There.

Now can we continue the discussion at hand?

 

[Knight Templar]

For the record if you change a post within just a minute or so after first putting it on the boards it doesn't even show that it's been edited at all. That's how my own posts work...if I change them immediately after posting them then there's no indicator and timestamp at the bottom that it was ever altered. It's only if you wait a little while or longer that it shows up for others to see.

But you know what? Fine. If it'll make you happy...if I was wrong? If I'm mistaking your post about the container ship and launcher for someone else's? I apologize. I'm sorry. My bad. Mea culpa.



There.

Now can we continue the discussion at hand?

Fine. And I was unaware of that characteristic of the board.

I'll assume that you did not deliberately misrepresent what I posted.

All is well.

 

[horatio83]

Funny that the very people who are usually fine with letting infrastructure rot away in the name of small government claim now to care about it.

 

[datagal]

The United States govt. should began immediate preparations for an EMP attack (from a nuclear weapon exploding in space 200 miles or so above the U.S.) and/or a Coronal Mass Ejection event from the sun.

Either could fry electronic devices all across the U.S. (including car ignitions) and leave at the very least tens of millions of Americans dead when the U.S. power grid goes down for years.

A CME has happened before. Less than 200 years ago. Today one would be immensely devastating.

An EMP attack could happen anytime. It would not be difficult at all. Just load a SCUD missile aboard a container ship and launch it into space above the U.S. from offshore.

SCUDs were built specifically to carry early nuclear warheads.

The first stages in preparing for these events would be costly though easily affordable by the U.S. federal govt. One of the first would be ordering replacement transformers for the ones that would be destroyed by either event to speed reconstruction of the power grid. Other steps would be ensuring cities and communities had reliable communications and information available.

It has been estimated that preparing for such events would cost around 10 billion dollars a year give or take. Big money, but more than reasonable within what the U.S. federal govt. already spends annually.

I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Just get a copy of American Legion magazine from last year.

Various other publications have addressed the dangers as well. Including Popular Mechanics all the way back in August of 2001 IIRC.

It went over your head. Completely over your head.

 

[cooleddie74]

SCUD's are about what? the length of an 18 wheeler? something that big moving slowly through a dockyard well past the point which it's supposed to stop and onload being mounted to a cargo vessel, while looking nothing like a typical truck, is going to stand out like a sore thumb.

Someone, somewhere is going to phone that in, and it would be visible to any half decent surveillance satellite, and reported probably before the ship even sets to sea.

The weight of the vehicle, weapon etc would make the ship carry somewhat lower in the water which would be a giveaway to any smaller vessel at the water line used to guide the main one into harbour.

The slow speed of such a ship means it could be stopped well before it even reaches American waters, depending on how quickly intelligence agencies are alerted. And I assume there are at least some naval presences out in the Meditarrenean, Gulf and Pacific/Indian region to investigate?

If it's right out on the top deck and not even covered at all then hell, any satellite has hours, days even to fly over and take hundreds of images, have experts analyse them before the ship gets halfway there.

Conspicuous doesn't begin to cover it.

Absolutely could NOT agree more. Chemy, you Babe Ruthed it out of the ballpark with this reply and I just don't see how the idea of a lengthy, tractor-trailer sized or larger TEL(no matter how well covered and camouflaged) being erected and fired within eye and earshot of other boats and ships just offshore of a major American port wouldn't be an issue. The sight of a tall missile with fins being erected into position on its launch rail would draw attention in such a heavily trafficked area, and let's not forget the routine police and port authority boat and helicopter patrols in such areas. No, the only way such an attack would even be feasible in the slightest would be for the container ship to fire its missile from a standoff position miles and miles from port, but with the very limited range and poor CEP/accuracy of most SRBMs(especially those of old Soviet design predating the end of the Cold War) the only way to ensure hitting the target would be to risk getting within range of local law enforcement patrols, the Coast Guard and average citizens on boats who might notice something extremely sinister going on.

Not a good recipe for success.

 

[scotpens]

I think we need to protect ourselves from giant mega-chickens.

I take it they're worse than regular Mega-Chickens.

Don't worry, we'll have plenty of advance warning. You always hear some cool Bernard Herrmann music before they attack.

 

[Kemaiku]

Absolutely could NOT agree more. Chemy, you Babe Ruthed it out of the ballpark with this reply and I just don't see how the idea of a lengthy, tractor-trailer sized or larger TEL(no matter how well covered and camouflaged) being erected and fired within eye and earshot of other boats and ships just offshore of a major American port wouldn't be an issue. The sight of a tall missile with fins being erected into position on its launch rail would draw attention in such a heavily trafficked area, and let's not forget the routine police and port authority boat and helicopter patrols in such areas. No, the only way such an attack would even be feasible in the slightest would be for the container ship to fire its missile from a standoff position miles and miles from port, but with the very limited range and poor CEP/accuracy of most SRBMs(especially those of old Soviet design predating the end of the Cold War) the only way to ensure hitting the target would be to risk getting within range of local law enforcement patrols, the Coast Guard and average citizens on boats who might notice something extremely sinister going on.

Not a good recipe for success.

Exactly, a midnight attempt would fail partly due to the size of the vehicle and difficulty of doing anything with it when you have no light to work with and the departure times of the ship, and the dock yard workers needed for the heavy work having clocked off for the night. Can't see shit and can't move a thing.

I think we need to protect ourselves from giant mega-chickens.

I take it they're worse than regular Mega-Chickens.

Don't worry, we'll have plenty of advance warning. You always hear some cool Bernard Herrmann music before they attack.

Oh my, those movies, so very nearly managed to forget them.

 

[Kirby]

I live in Denver so worst case scenario, I'll ride my bike down to the Springs and go through the Stargate to the Alpha site until everything is back up.

 

[cooleddie74]

Both THE DAY AFTER(1983) and THREADS(1984) featured EMP attacks that immediately preceded the nuclear strikes seen in both films. To this day I can still remember seeing the somewhat cheesy effect of a high EMP burst over Kansas City before that city was leveled by a Soviet warhead. I believe an EMP strike to immobilize a large chunk of the American land-based nuclear deterrent was also mentioned in RED DAWN as a way to help explain why the U.S. didn't use nukes against the attacking Soviets.

I knew about EMPs even as a nine and ten year old kid but like a lot of others in this thread have repeatedly stated such a strike is either impractical or it would be instant suicide for the aggressor. EMP attacks make for tense, interesting plot points in films but, I think, aren't nearly as much of an issue in real life due to the current geopolitical reality.

 

[Knight Templar]

Both THE DAY AFTER(1983) and THREADS(1984) featured EMP attacks that immediately preceded the nuclear strikes seen in both films. To this day I can still remember seeing the somewhat cheesy effect of a high EMP burst over Kansas City before that city was leveled by a Soviet warhead. I believe an EMP strike to immobilize a large chunk of the American land-based nuclear deterrent was also mentioned in RED DAWN as a way to help explain why the U.S. didn't use nukes against the attacking Soviets.

I knew about EMPs even as a nine and ten year old kid but like a lot of others in this thread have repeatedly stated such a strike is either impractical or it would be instant suicide for the aggressor. EMP attacks make for tense, interesting plot points in films but, I think, aren't nearly as much of an issue in real life due to the current geopolitical reality.

What about CME?

I doubt the sun knows the Cold War is over......

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, as I said somewhere above a Coronal Mass Ejection of biblical proportions is a legitimate concern and I completely understand and support efforts to counteract such an event, because sooner or later it probably will happen whether two months, two years or two centuries down the road. CME countermeasures make more sense to fret about because a CME can have global implications whereas an EMP detonation over the central United States would have a far more localized and regional effect(unless that attack sparked an all-out nuclear exchange, in which case hello, Mad Max).

 

[Knight Templar]

I have read (okay, it was in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science so there) that NASA had plans to put a satellite in orbit that could provide some warning of mass CMEs

Presumably, if a reliable warning can be delivered, substantial portions of the electrical grid could be taken off line and systems like the transformers saved from damage.

Though that has serious implications of its own. The decision to shut down the power grid across the U.S. and Canada for example would be a huge one.

One way or the other, the results of the power being off for a few hours even would no doubt result in a number of deaths.

 

[Trekker4747]

I have read (okay, it was in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science so there) that NASA had plans to put a satellite in orbit that could provide some warning of mass CMEs.

I've also read in Popular Mechanics that we'll have flying cars by 2010 along with bases on Mars.

 

[cooleddie74]

I still want my Mattel or Pit Bull hoverboard, dammit. Robert Zemeckis is gonna get a foot up his ass for getting all our hopes up like this.

 

[Davros]

I live in Denver so worst case scenario, I'll ride my bike down to the Springs and go through the Stargate to the Alpha site until everything is back up.

We have more to worry about from the Yellowstone Caldera

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

I have read (okay, it was in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science so there) that NASA had plans to put a satellite in orbit that could provide some warning of mass CMEs

This one?

The one launched in 1997 with enough fuel on board to maintain its station until about 2024?

Don't rely on doctor's offices for your reading material, they're hopelessly outdated there.

 

[cooleddie74]

We have more to worry about from the Yellowstone Caldera

Now that has the potential for what could be a very, very interesting thread. Has anybody ever started one to discuss Yellowstone and its potentially lethal dangers to the U.S. and the North American continent? The Caldera is one of those oft-ignored and shoved under the carpet realities of life that, at some point in the future, will make itself evident to everybody who knows and cares about its existence or not. I'd just as soon be long dead and gone by the time that thing decides to blow its top and render a significant portion of the lower 48 states little more than an uninhabited wasteland.