Typical Refit-Times

[CuttingEdge100]

The Constitution-Class in Star Trek was refitted a couple of times. I know the TMP-refit was a rather massive refit taking 18 months to occur...

How long did it take for the other refits? (For example the Enterprise in "The Cage" was different than in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and the footage from the rest of TOS)


CuttingEdge100

 

[GodThingFormerly]

A few weeks at the outside, I imagine, considering that the earlier refits were restricted to merely swapping discrete - and presumaby modular - spacecraft components (warp nacelle caps, impulse engine bells, deflector dish, bridge, etc.) that would have been already shipped to or manufactured at the relevant starbase.

TGT

 

[Timo]

I'd think that the TMP refit was more extensive than the preceding ones, because Decker emphasized how different the ship was as the result. He should have known that Kirk had already witnessed a change or two...

The change in bridge profile (and perhaps mainly the underlying sensors) could have been a relatively rapid operation. Perhaps not quite a "plug-in module" thing, but still an operation involving a small and easily accessible part of the ship. Might have been a week or two, months at most. The engines probably stayed the same. Those fancy spikes at the forward end might have been changed from the prominent "The Cage" ones to slimmer and retractable models that would make both "in" and "out" appearances during TOS, but again, that would probably be a minor thing even if the spikes were important and expensive and whatnot.

Now, as to how long it took to refit the ship to the "The Cage" configuration from the configuration we see in the upcoming movie...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

Now, as to how long it took to refit the ship to the "The Cage" configuration from the configuration we see in the upcoming movie...

Timo Saloniemi

I have to admit to not taking that all too literally - after all if we assume what we are seeing is "real" we are still seeing it on television, maybe 1960's technology was just not up to showing the Enterprise as we see it now?

 

[Timo]

Naah. The Enterprise-JJ looks so 1950s that it simply has to precede Pike's version by a decade.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Santaman]

When it comes to refits and the like it all comes to planning, if the refit itself has been planned in advance to the smallest detail and if all tools and materials are available the moment the ship enters drydock then it could be a short process, heck this goes for building new ships as well, the Royal navy scared the piss out of everyone when they build the Dreadnought, not only was it the most powerfull vessel in on the face of the planet she also was operational in a year and a day after construction started because Jackie Fisher stockpiled material including turrets meant for other vessels.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ That's also assuming you have a shipyard that knows what the heck they're doing...

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Vance]

Now, as to how long it took to refit the ship to the "The Cage" configuration from the configuration we see in the upcoming movie...

That's easy enough. They're not the same ship. Two ships. Two timelines. Not same ship. JJPrise will NEVER be the TOS Enterprise, that's the entire point of the 'reboot'.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

The God Thing,

So would you say 3 months sounds about right?


CuttingEdge100

 

[GodThingFormerly]

So would you say 3 months sounds about right?

Possibly, if one includes the time required for post-refit static tests and a shakedown cruise.

TGT

 

[Timo]

...And if the refit isn't a somewhat experimental procedure, like the TMP one is sometimes assumed to be.

If the new engines in that movie really were cutting edge technology, possibly never installed on another ship before, then there might be all sorts of kinks to straighten out so that it's not refit plus shakedown, it's refit-test-teardown-refitsomemore-test-teardown-refit-shakedown-recommission. Or even refit-test-teardown-refitsomemoe-test-discardeverythingindisgust-startoveragain.

What was done to the ship during Pike's career, or between the pilot episodes, or between the second pilot and TOS, might all be part of a procedure previously tested on other ships of the class. Odds are that the TMP refit wasn't like that. (But admittedly there's nothing explicit there about this being a unique procedure, or the engines never having been applied elsewhere - all the excitement is about how this particular refit has succeeded in its aims, without reference to previous efforts.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vance]

The TMP Storyboards actually had more ships being uprated as well, with a Saladin or Hermes class even already done in dock. So while the Enterprise was definately fitted with new technology, she wasn't uniquely so. (Of course, this also adds to the rediculous assertion that the entire fleet was being uprated at the exact same time...)

But, at any rate, refit times really depend on just what, exactly, is being refit. Replacing the Tesla emitters with the Phasers, for instance, may only take a few days, and then a day or two of testing. But that's a definite modernization refit, and counts.

It's hard to say if the 'spike cap' refits were substantial are not. The function of the spike may have been outmoded by the time of the Mod2 engines, but since we're not entirely sure what that function was, etc, or what else was needed, it could literally have been a case of someone just uninstalling them and setting the Enterprise back along her way.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

How many times would you say the Enterprise was refitted prior to the TMP refit?

Would you say that one refit after each 5 year mission would be accurate, or do you think the first 10-years went by without a significant refit?


CuttingEdge100

 

[Vance]

How many times would you say the Enterprise was refitted prior to the TMP refit?

Would you say that one refit after each 5 year mission would be accurate, or do you think the first 10-years went by without a significant refit?

We see three versions of the Enterprise on the screen for TOS, and we can assume at least one was done for modernization (Lasers to Phasers). Keep in mind, though, that there are two main reasons for refits...

1) Modernization. This is the one that Trek fans are more familiar with, replacing older pieces with new equipment. An example would be the 'Cage' configuration to the 'Production' configuration, or the radical modernization of the TMP 'refit'. (The latter is more formally called an 'uprating' rather than a 'refit'.)

2) Repair. The second 'refit' that isn't really in Trek parlance is the refit that occurs to repair serious damage. It's hard to say how many of these the Gray Lady got in her lifespan, but we can hazard that Kirk had to have one after the 'Where No Man...' period, and that's how we got the Production version, if you like.

In either case, it's hard to say how long a ship will spend on drydock, and how much testing is needed for each refit. Replacing the phaser turrets may not have taken long, and a live-fire test would only take a few days. Replacing engineering, however...

 

[Santaman]

Replacing engineering shouldn't take all that long, they've refitted passenger ships from steam to diesel/diesel electric power and that only took a few months the QE2 had a refit like that for example.

 

[Vance]

Replacing engineering shouldn't take all that long, they've refitted passenger ships from steam to diesel/diesel electric power and that only took a few months the QE2 had a refit like that for example.

Depends on what all they're doing, nae? Changing a ship from a diesel-powered engine to a nuclear-powered one would be some change, for instance. The big answer, really, is 'maybe', and it depends on what's being done to the ship overall.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Damage-repairs actually occurred *during* the five-year missions.

I'm talking about the refits that occurred between the five-year missions. I'm wondering was there a refit at the end of every five year mission, or just some?

 

[Santaman]

Replacing engineering shouldn't take all that long, they've refitted passenger ships from steam to diesel/diesel electric power and that only took a few months the QE2 had a refit like that for example.

Depends on what all they're doing, nae? Changing a ship from a diesel-powered engine to a nuclear-powered one would be some change, for instance. The big answer, really, is 'maybe', and it depends on what's being done to the ship overall.

Actually changing the QE2 to nuclear would have been a lot quicker since the steam turbines and the steam conduits are already in place.

As for the QE2's real refit, it meant removing the entire propulsion and power generating system, all the power generators, all boilers, all steam turbines and even the propellor shafts and propellors were removed, she was gutted and everything that used to run on steam was removed and replaced, in short she was gutted and totally rebuild.

As for the TOS to TMP refit, 18 months doesn't sound like to be far off since the Enterprise was for a part build to be modular and with the resources and techniques of that era I almost would say piece of cake except for V'Gers flying around and messing up the shakedown cruise.

 

[Deks]

I would imagine that most if not all crews perform minor refits/upgrades on their systems in the field.
TNG is evidence of this particular practice.

As for typical refit times ...
I can imagine that different classes have different refit schedules (because you cannot recall ships from deep space assignments for refits for example or suddenly pull your forces from border patrol duties).
So I would say, there is about 4 to 6 years interval for larger scale refits, sometimes more if the particular class doesn't require major overhaul of it's systems that cannot be done in the field.

Most of the refits are done in the field anyway, unless they encompass larger scale upgrades such as new warp/computer core, etc (things that force the ship to be out of commission for a bit).
Take Voyager in Season 7 when Janeway decided to make a major overhaul of the entire ship (which probably included retrofitting/upgrades of existing/old systems for which the crew created better specs but never got the chance to implement them).

You also have forced refits that encompass a full ship for example.
These are primarily done in times when outside threat such as the Borg ensue.
The Enterprise-D was about 3 years in service when it underwent a major system overhaul which improved it a lot.
Incidentally, the ship seemed much weaker when that was done.

Writers ... gotta love it when you can identify when they started dumbing things down.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

I'm wondering something.

If the Enterprise underwent one refit at the end of every 5 year mission, each three months in length, the Enterprise's fourth 5-year mission (Kirk's) wouldn't have taken place until 2266...


CuttingEdge100