TWOK deleted scene question

[balls]

Over the years I've heard the story of shatner telling Meyer that he didn't want Sulu to get a promotion in TWOK. Was the scene shot? In the novelization it Kirk references Sulu's impending command of the Excelsior and his command braid on his uniform. If the scene was shot does anyone know if Takei's costume did have the captain pin on it? I think it's cool that the original script referenced the excelsior and the filmmakers of TSFS chose to keep that ship name. Granted, Harve Bennett was involved with both so that probably added to the continuity.

 

[Maurice]

The main "rumor" is George says Shatner delivered his lines badly, causing the lines to be cut.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Judging from the script of that scene, I'd say that those lines were likely shot. If you look closely at Takei during that scene, he opens his mouth again right after he says, "Any chance to be aboard the Enterprise" -- he's about to say the rest of his line which led into the discussion of Sulu's promotion.

They just trimmed the scene down a bit, likely because it wasn't relevant to the plot. Shatner intentionally delivering his lines badly just to sabotage Takei's moment seems unlikely to me. Let's face it -- Sulu (and Takei) just weren't that important in the grand scheme of things. Plus, Nicholas Meyer wasn't shy about making Shatner do multiple takes to make him lose the posturing that he was prone to and be more naturalistic. I doubt that Meyer would've hesitated to make Shatner do retakes if he thought that his performance wasn't up to snuff.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Here's the script of the scene in full. Notice that the scene cuts off Sulu in mid-SENTENCE!

29 INT. SPACE SHUTTLE 29

A new composite. Bones, Sulu, Uhura and Kirk -- who
sits, reading. Through the windows we can see the
approach to the starship ENTERPRISE. Kirk looks up,
nods. Sulu activates a comm button.

SULU
Enterprise, this is Admiral Kirk's
party on final approach.

ENTERPRISE VOICE
(filtered)
Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare
for docking.

Kirk looks up from his book as Sulu sits next to him.

KIRK
I really must thank you.

SULU
(embarrassed)
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

Sulu laughs.​

 

[Grant]

The scene was shot. I have seen it on the rough cut that is at the UCLA film school.

Shatner neither blew his lines nor did he deliver them with great excitement (which is apparently what Takei wanted.)

In the actual scene AS SHOT McCoy had a added line after Kirk says that Sulu will have his own command---

McCoy "Well, congratulations, Commander!"--

which may have been added because Kelley's line reading was
filled with the tone of happiness that Takei clearly wanted.

Kirk's line "you earned it." was not in the rough cut and clearly wasn't shot, at least in the take they used for the rough cut.

If they had wanted to include the scene---there was nothing in the completed scene that wasn't up to the standards of the rest of the film.

They didn't use it for other reasons than it wasn't acted properly.

Side note--I recorded a lot of the deleted stuff on my cellphone and I use Sulu's line.....

"Thank you sir, I've been looking forward to that for a long time." as the ringtone for my best friends phone.

There is a cut line from David that starts with.......

"You dumb bastard...!!" that I use for my mother-in-law's phone. LOL

OH!! AND NO HE DID NOT HAVE A "CAPTAIN'S PIN" OR INSIGNIA DURING THE SCENE.


In fact the scene in the released version is the same in every way--except the lines in question have been removed.

 

[Grant]

If anybody is interested in cut/deleted scenes/lines etc.

this thread lists literally hundreds of them and along the way I chime in on many of the cut things I saw in the TWOK workprint (rough cut)

Fantastic thread--lots of informative posts and pictures..........


http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=220249&highlight=UCLA+workprint

 

[bigdaddy]

^

Hope your husband / wife doesn't read your posts.

I always thought it was funny that the driver f the ship suddenly becomes captain. I'm kind of glad it was cut so more time would have past before Sulu commands a ship.

 

[Christopher]

I always thought it was funny that the driver f the ship suddenly becomes captain. I'm kind of glad it was cut so more time would have past before Sulu commands a ship.

Except that TWOK is set somewhere around a decade after TMP, and the very scene we're discussing makes it clear that these officers (or at least Sulu) don't serve on the Enterprise anymore but are just reuniting for the training cruise (probably because of Kirk's birthday). So Sulu would've had years between films to gain command experience on other ships.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Was TWOK intended as a one-shot, or were further sequels always in mind (provided TWOK was any good)? If the former, the line deletion makes sense once they'd realized there'd probably be a ST III as otherwise they'd written Sulu into a corner along with Spock.

 

[Christopher]

Was TWOK intended as a one-shot, or were further sequels always in mind (provided TWOK was any good)?

Well, it was originally conceived as a TV movie, and was made for a very low budget. That was more about TMP's cost overruns than anything else (because TMP actually did very well at the box office), but it does suggest that they were uncertain about the franchise's potential and felt they were taking a chance on TWOK. So they certainly weren't assuming there would be a sequel. But at the same time, they certainly wouldn't have ruled out the possibility of a sequel if it did well enough.

And no, I don't think it had anything to do with fears about writing Sulu into a corner. At the time, or so I understand it, the filmmakers were thinking about the prospect of gradually phasing out the TV cast in favor of younger leads, which is why Saavik was introduced. They weren't committed to keeping the original cast around forever, so writing out a cast member wouldn't have cornered them. (And really, it would've made about a thousand times more sense than having the same seven people serve together on the same ship for over a quarter-century.)

 

[urbandefault]

Let's face it -- Sulu (and Takei) just weren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

This.

Sulu didn't do much in any of the movies. Sure, he might have been about to be promoted in TWOK, but it didn't matter. He was there to pilot the Enterprise.

In TSFS, he had a nice little scene ("Don't call me 'Tiny'") but if it had been cut no one would have noticed. In TVH, he pretty much disappeared after the street scene until he flew the Huey in with the Plexi.

I don't remember a significant scene where he had more than a couple of words in TFF. And in TUC, even though he was captain of the Excelsior, he was absent through much of the movie.

Throughout most of the films, it seems like Uhura and Chekov had more to do than Sulu. That tells me that he just wasn't that important to the story. He was there, but he was just there.

In my opinion Sulu just wasn't a compelling character, and Takei isn't really that good an actor. Your mileage may vary, but mine doesn't.

The character he plays in real life is much more interesting.

 

[Silanda]

They were right to cut the scene IMHO. It would have added absolutely nothing to TWOK. Also, although we now know how Sulu's character played out, at the time it would have locked the character's development along a certain path for no immediate gain. Hell, logically Sulu would have had to have been shipped off to the Excelsior in TSFS, and wouldn't have appeared in TVH or TFF.

It's strange that Takei got so bent out of shape over this when, if he'd got his way, Sulu probably wouldn't have appeared in at least two of the next three movies. If Shatner did deliver poorly on purpose he probably ended up doing Takei a favour.

 

[EnriqueH]

But why would Shatner purposely blow the lines?

I don't get that.

 

[Christopher]

^As Grant established above, he didn't blow the lines. It's just one more dumb rumor.

 

[Firebird]

But why would Shatner purposely blow the lines?

I don't get that.

Because it would support Takei's anti-Shatner storyline is the only reason I can think of it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Shatner neither blew his lines nor did he deliver them with great excitement (which is apparently what Takei wanted.)

Considering that Kirk was in the throes of a midlife crisis at that point in the film, it would've been a bit jarring if he suddenly got all giddy at the prospect of Sulu making Captain. At best, I could see Kirk feigning happiness and politely congratulating him while really being envious that his former helmsman would be captaining a ship when he wasn't himself.

So yeah, I chalk this up to one more example of George Takei's imagined Shatner conspiracy against him. The truth is probably more like Takei just didn't show up on Shatner's radar that much, so if he offended Takei, it was more through obliviousness than malice.

 

[Grant]

Shatner neither blew his lines nor did he deliver them with great excitement (which is apparently what Takei wanted.)

Considering that Kirk was in the throes of a midlife crisis at that point in the film, it would've been a bit jarring if he suddenly got all giddy at the prospect of Sulu making Captain. At best, I could see Kirk feigning happiness and politely congratulating him while really being envious that his former helmsman would be captaining a ship when he wasn't himself.

.

Exactly right!!
I just listened to the scene again and there are subtle changes to both keep Kirk's mood the same and satisfy Takei's need for the others to be happy for him.

Here first is the script.........




ENTERPRISE VOICE
(filtered)
Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare
for docking.

Kirk looks up from his book as Sulu sits next to him.

KIRK
I really must thank you.

SULU
(embarrassed)
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

Sulu laughs.

------Now, as filmed..............changes in BOLD





ENTERPRISE VOICE
(filtered)
Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare
for docking.

Kirk looks up from his book as Sulu sits next to him.

KIRK
I hate inspections

SULU
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
Well with Spock in command you don't think I'll turn anything up do you? By
the end of the month, you'll have your
own command: USS EXCELSIOR.

McCoy
Oh, congratulations commander!

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
Well I for one am grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

Sulu laughs.


--------As you can see by the changes.....

they changed Kirk from saying...

"I really must thank you" (Sulu) to

"I hate inspections."

This continues Kirk's melancholy demeanor from both the academy corridor scene and his apartment.
------Then they added the line
"With Spock in command...."
indicating Kirk was missing the center seat---replacing "I cut your new orders personally."

Then they added McCoy's line congratulating Sulu.....
logical because McCoy is happy for Sulu without the mixed feelings Kirk is feeling.

Lastly they cut the "You earned it."--------

which IMO sounds just a little too patronizing on Kirk's part.

If you've noticed Shatner's performance in the existing/remaining shuttle pod scene then you can be assured Shatner's performance of those cut 3 lines was delivered in exactly the same manner.

For Takei. this was his big scene in the movie.
What he didn't (or wouldn't) get is that the movie is about Kirk's mid-life crisis.

Shatner is continuing his mood from the previous Kirk scenes into the shuttle pod scene.
Takei was not in those other two scenes (corridor/appt.), so he maybe didn't know that Kirk was supposed to be down.
He took it as SHATNER is not acting happy in the scene where my promotion is mentioned.

In fact it is simply that KIRK is feeling bad about his own life--not Shatner peeing on Takei's parade.

Personally I like the scene and wish they had kept it.
Then in Trek 3, they could have had a scene where Kirk says to Sulu.....

"If you assist me on this mission (to find Spock)---you'll lose your new command."

To which Sulu could have nobly disregarded the warning to help his friends (Spock/McCoy)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, the way Takei tells the story, he makes it sound like the movie stopped dead to have a huge promotion ceremony for Sulu, and Shatner intentionally killed the scene by acting indifferent.

I know it had to be tough for the supporting actors like Takei to constantly be foraging for crumbs of character development, but at the same time, you have to realize that it's not always about you. You're in the chorus, not a soloist.

 

[The Old Mixer]

From those line changes, I can see why they cut it. It seems a little too out of left field in that context.

 

[Nebusj]

From those line changes, I can see why they cut it. It seems a little too out of left field in that context.

The original draft reads better to me. And the scene, in principle, feeds the main emotional thrust of Kirk's Midlife Crisis pretty well, as it is about how another one of his longstanding trusted sidekicks is going off and having the sorts of adventures he can't have anymore.

The as-filmed version feels like they tinkered with the writing, probably with the intent of conveying as much as they could in as little screen time as possible, until they got something in that curious quasi-formal Over-Written Trek dialect, where the sentences are grammatically acceptable yet pretty removed from the way people talk. (``Any chance to go aboard Enterprise, however briefly, is always an excuse for nostalgia''? Sulu, if you bring that sentence in for repairs we can have it ready for you to say by Wednesday.)