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Two TSFS Questions

c0rnedfr0g

Commodore
Commodore
1. What happened to the original captain of the Excelsior, Captain Styles? I don't think he would lose command just because Scotty sabotaged his ship. By TUC, we see that Sulu is the Excelsior's captain. Where did this guy go? What was the Excelsior doing between TSFS and TUC?

2. Why can't Bones perform the Vulcan Neck Pinch with Spock's katra inside? Because he was loony and trying it from the front or because he was human? I swear I've seen non-Vulcans perform it on-screen (no specific examples come to mind). And in TOS, Spock several times mentions teaching Kirk it, so that leads me to believe that humans are capable (otherwise why would Spock offer?).
 
!. No canon answer---just speculation.

2. It was stated as far back as the original series that you had to have super-strength to do it.

So, for example, Data could do it.
 
1. What happened to the original captain of the Excelsior, Captain Styles? I don't think he would lose command just because Scotty sabotaged his ship. By TUC, we see that Sulu is the Excelsior's captain. Where did this guy go? What was the Excelsior doing between TSFS and TUC?

There's a gap of about 8 years between those films, and we know Sulu had been captain for at least 3 years prior to TUC. So Styles could've stayed on as Excelsior's captain for up to 5 years. (Indeed, the recent novel Excelsior: Forged in Fire shows how the command of the ship passed from Styles to Sulu.)

2. Why can't Bones perform the Vulcan Neck Pinch with Spock's katra inside? Because he was loony and trying it from the front or because he was human? I swear I've seen non-Vulcans perform it on-screen (no specific examples come to mind). And in TOS, Spock several times mentions teaching Kirk it, so that leads me to believe that humans are capable (otherwise why would Spock offer?).

What Spock actually said was that he had tried to teach it to Kirk, clearly without success. So it can't be easy for non-Vulcans to pick up, and maybe most humans just don't have whatever attributes it takes. Archer was able to do it when he was carrying Surak's katra, but he was younger and stronger than McCoy and more trained in combat, so maybe he was better prepared physically to manage it. After all, it takes muscle memory and training to master a physical skill; even if you know how to do it, that doesn't mean your body does.

As for the claim that it requires superhuman strength, I'm fairly certain that was never explicitly stated onscreen. Memory Alpha calls that speculation. The Star Trek Concordance does assert that in its lexicon entry on the nerve pinch, but some of its material came from behind-the-scenes references and not from onscreen dialogue.

We've seen the nerve pinch performed by the following non-Vulcans: Data, Odo, Seven of Nine, Archer, and probably Picard (though it's debatable whether the move he used on Tim Russ in "Starship Mine" was really a Vulcan nerve pinch or a similar pressure-point attack). Of those, the first three have superhuman strength, and the latter three had direct access to Vulcan knowledge and memory (Seven from assimilations, Archer from carrying Surak's katra, and Picard from his meld with Sarek). Picard, like Archer, has had combat training. (And note that if it was a Vulcan nerve pinch rather than a pressure-point attack, it took far longer to work when Picard did it, suggesting only partial mastery.)
 
I think the super-strength thing was from the writer's bible.
I think that they stuck to that for a long time, so everyone wouldn't be learning and using the pinch willy nilly.

I think Archer & Picard using it is totally bogus. But after 300 or 600 episodes things like that happen.
 
I agree, they feel compelled to let 'just one other' character master it and before you know it Archer can do it and Kirk never could?

"Oh, Archer melded with blah blah, blah....."

Bullcrap
 
But really, if it's a nerve pinch, a physical attack, why should it be unique to Vulcans? It stands to reason that it should be learnable, if difficult, like a martial arts technique. Sure, one can hypothesize that there's some kind of psionic energy involved (and that's how Nimoy explained it), but there's never been any onscreen suggestion of that.

And "superstrength" is an exaggeration. True, the average Vulcan is up to three times as strong as the average human, but there's a bell curve; a slender, 5'6" Vulcan female like T'Pol may be three times stronger than a slender, 5'6" human female, but she's probably not that strong in comparison to a big, athletic human male like, say, Ben Sisko or Will Riker. So if she can do the neck pinch, then it should be doable for a particularly strong or skilled human, assuming strength is the key factor. And it would certainly be doable for other physically strong species such as Klingons, Jem'Hadar, Hirogen, etc.

Now, on the other hand, we have something like the Catullan "nerve pinch" from "The Way to Eden." Tongo Rad could knock people out instantly just by pressing the tips of his thumbs to either side of the neck beneath the ears. That pretty much has to be rationalized as some kind of psionic-energy attack, unless he has, I don't know, venom stings in his thumbs.
 
Tongo Rad could knock people out instantly just by pressing the tips of his thumbs to either side of the neck beneath the ears. That pretty much has to be rationalized as some kind of psionic-energy attack, unless he has, I don't know, venom stings in his thumbs.

That venom turns your hair purple and really knocks your socks off.
 
1. What happened to the original captain of the Excelsior, Captain Styles? I don't think he would lose command just because Scotty sabotaged his ship. By TUC, we see that Sulu is the Excelsior's captain. Where did this guy go? What was the Excelsior doing between TSFS and TUC?

Many possibilities. Keep in mind, not all Captains of vessels are like Kirk, hanging around off and on for decades.

In today's Navy, Captains of vessels are assigned and reassigned all the time. If not that, then he could have been transfered or killed. He could have been caught sniffing the soiled underpants of his first officer. He could have gotten married and decided to work Earthside, to spend more time with his husband.

Again, many possibilities.

Joe, briefed
 
Now, on the other hand, we have something like the Catullan "nerve pinch" from "The Way to Eden." Tongo Rad could knock people out instantly just by pressing the tips of his thumbs to either side of the neck beneath the ears.
Possibly a tribute to the beach movies that featured Erich von Zipper around that time? :lol:
 
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