Spoilers Twice Upon a Time grading and discussion thread

[Count Zero]

Rusty!

Somehow, Rusty's appearance really pleased me. It was nice and unexpected to get a pay-off for that uneven episode which coloured some people's perception of Capaldi's Doctor quite negatively.

Overall, a great ans epic episode and a worthy send-off for Capaldi. Perhaps a bit too fanwanky for more casual viewers but I enjoyed every minute of it, even the silly jokes about the First Doctor's old-fashioned views. The story about the Captain from WWI was surprisingly touching. I don't think it was necessary that he be the Brig's father.

The Doctor's speech in the Tardis went on a bit too long but that's pretty much always the case. I suspect it's done to make it a bit easier for the fans to let go.

I found the ending a bit puzzling. So the Tardis sort of persuaded the Doctor to have one more go but then ejected the new one. And how the hell will she survive that fall? Maybe her being without the Tardis will be a plotpoint in the new series in a continuation of the Pertwee era nostalgia that we already had with Capaldi. We'll see.

 

[Green Lantern]

Two additional thoughts:
Also noted the callback to Tennant and Smith era tracks, particularly liked the Tennant era ones, for the sake of nostalgia. Interesting how it was Rose's theme used for the regeneration though, almost felt a bit thrown together. Also a bit jarring seeing the Rose theme used when Bill spoke, as it was made so specifically for the character, however it was nonetheless nice to hear it again.

I completely forgot about the Day of the Doctor cameo not being addressed, I guess it didn't technically desperately need addressing, especially as every Doctor that came before Smith was also a part of it, and had no scenes to explain it, but it would have been nice to have seen it sometime in the Capaldi era have something to address it, could have potentially even made an episode out of it, would have been a suitable replacement for some of the shittier episodes like Kill the Moon or the "Me" two parter.

 

[Samurai8472]

Yeah, I agree. That's what I meant about the hissy fit. The TARDIS shook her out and disappeared. Not an auspicious start.

I like to think the doctor's change to a woman shook up the the TARDIS


"Who is this new person? That's not the doctor! Commencing ejection procedures!"

I suppose the 13th doctor will have to convince the TARDIS that she's still the doctor later on

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I like to think the doctor's change to a woman shook up the the TARDIS


"Who is this new person? That's not the doctor! Commencing ejection procedures!"

I suppose the 13th doctor will have to convince the TARDIS that she's still the doctor later on

It could also tie to the rumored plotline of series 11 that was being discussed on another thread in this forum. That's what I thought, immediately.

That said, since it was Chibnall who wrote that part, I wonder how much of it derived from the reception towards the casting of Whittaker. Maybe it really was Chibnall going meta with all those responses.

 

[Mr Soak]

The way the TARDIS was sideways and shaking up and down with the doors open, it looked like it was literally trying to throw the new Doctor out.

Sexy was jealous.

Good story. I enjoyed the focus on the Doctors' unwillingness to change. The plot about Testimony was merely the catalyst for the story. I wouldn't concern myself too much about them.

And hey, 1914 Christmas truce. Called it.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Did anyone catch what the screen said before the TARDIS doors opened and threw her out? Something along the lines of 'Temporal Anomaly Detected'.
Possibly a clue as to next season's storyline.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Did anyone catch what the screen said before the TARDIS doors opened and threw her out? Something along the lines of 'Temporal Anomaly Detected'.
Possibly a clue as to next season's storyline.

The screen says "Systems Crisis - Multiple Operations Failure"

 

[diankra]

What were those words, what studio pressures, and source please?

It's in the camera script, but with studio time running out (due to earlier over-running recording of the actual regeneration close-up, shot as an insert to edit in at the end) the lines were dropped as there wouldn't be time for a retake if Hartnell slipped up.
The lines had Hartnell arguing with the console (like Capaldi today), saying something like "No, I can't go through with it, I refuse, I will not change..."
The actual script page is in the CMS 10th Planet issue, and probably a few places since.

 

[marillion]

Only one break in and I am loving it... The myosgeny call outs are hilarious. I’m already in stiches.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The Doctor's speech in the Tardis went on a bit too long but that's pretty much always the case. I suspect it's done to make it a bit easier for the fans to let go.

Possibly but I think the better explanation is that it gives the actor one last "moment in the spotlight" before they go.

And how the hell will she survive that fall?

That's what I want to know too. I see 3 possibilities:
1) The TARDIS rematerializes underneath her.
2) Something or perhaps someone saves her.
3) She does hit the ground but her recent regeneration makes her invulnerable.

 

[Samurai8472]

The screen says "Systems Crisis - Multiple Operations Failure"

Or M.O.F

 

[starsuperion]

Good LAST episode. Not the best, but pretty well rounded. A bit pretentious in some areas. On the whole, not bad.

 

[Captain Crow]

Thought it was mediocre bordering on awful.

Moffat stayed true to form and brought nothing new to the table. Testimony is a recycling of part of Missy's plan from series 8 and what the Time Lords did to Clara in series 9 smooshed together. Same old tired "The Doctor is the lit fart at the center of the universe that is the bird poop that lands on your ice cream cone who's known by the names Heart of Shart, The Oncoming BM, and Poopinstien McGee" type grandstanding speech. Tired old fan baiting. And an ending that's a recycling mashup of 12 blowing up the console room in "End of Time Part 2" and 13 falling out of the TARDIS in "The Eleventh Hour" with 15 not bothering to try and grab anything on her way out.

Also it's a shame that Bradley at times seemed to be playing a heavy handed piss take of Hartnell rather than the First Doctor.

 

[MarsWeeps]

That's what I want to know too. I see 3 possibilities:
1) The TARDIS rematerializes underneath her

That's exactly what I think happens but I think the Tardis is sort of going through its own regeneration first. New female Doctor will need a new version Tardis.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

A little rough in the middle with Rusty the Dalek (meh), but the rest of the episode was lovely, particularly how it intertwined The First and Twelfth Doctors' fear of regeneration together along with Alistair's father and the Christmas Truce. The story was lacking, but the character beats made up for it, at least for me. While in the context of this particular story, the holding back of the regeneration with the extended farewells with all of his companions, I truly hope we don't have to ever deal with that again. The regeneration should be sudden and traumatic and left with no room to meander. That aside, I had fully expected Clara to return, so I'm glad the appearance took the moment to return The Twelfth Doctor's memories of her, reversing a truly stupid plot point.

I knew we wouldn't get much from Jodie Whitaker, but I sure we wish we got more than line from her before she fell out of her TARDIS in mid-flight. Talk about a cliffhanger! The long wait until autumn is going to be unbearable. I want more of her now!

Moffat said in one of the behind-the-scenes videos I posted at the beginning of the thread that when he was writing the script, he had no intention of including Bill until he arrived at the scene of her first appearance and realized he wanted her to walk through that entrance. And yet, even though I knew Bill was returning, I deeply hoped that it would be Susan. For that particular moment, with The First Doctor standing there, her appearance made far more sense, even if Bill's role for the rest of the episode made more sense for The Twelfth Doctor. Still, it's a shame that Susan continues to get so very little acknowledgement (really just the photo on The Twelfth Doctor's desk at the university) after all these years.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Once again the Genesis of the Daleks clip for Four, an awful amount of Five, and I didn't catch any Six, Seven or Two.

Yeah, I didn't see any of them either, which is particularly strange for The Seventh Doctor considering his many dealings with war, both in the series and other media (certainly Big Finish at least).

Most noteworthy aspect for me was the score. Lots of musical callbacks to Smith and Tennant, and Rose’s theme. Murray’s swansong maybe?

I noticed that as well with the music from "Doomsday" as the one that was most affectively used. That said, there were a few transitions from one theme to another that came off very jarring because the tempo was so different.

The way the TARDIS was sideways and shaking up and down with the doors open, it looked like it was literally trying to throw the new Doctor out.

Which would make sense considering the Cloister Bell was ringing.

Only one break in and I am loving it... The misogyny call outs are hilarious. I’m already in stiches.

Yup, I quite loved that, especially in light of the last few months as well as the outcry against Jodie Whittaker.

That's what I want to know too. I see 3 possibilities:
1) The TARDIS rematerializes underneath her.

That's exactly what I think happens but I think the Tardis is sort of going through its own regeneration first. New female Doctor will need a new version Tardis.

That's what I expect, too. That would certainly explain "Systems Crisis - Multiple Operations Failure" and the Cloister Bell. For whatever reason, the TARDIS can't do its changes without endangering The Doctor while she's in the TARDIS, and considering it was mid-flight, The Doctor was thrown out through the sky instead of on steady

 

[The Wormhole]

Enjoyable episode, even if it is a bit lean on story. The ending doesn't make a lot of sense, Brigadier's Grandpa was supposed to have died there, that was kind of a key plot point, yet he lives instead and all is good. I assume he still gets killed in the War anyway?

While, the jokes about casual sexism in the past were rather amusing, I find it kind of odd they decided to pick their prejudices. Both the First Doctor and the Captain take make sexist comments about Bill and have reactions when they learn of her sexuality, yet neither of them seem to notice she's black, which to be fair isn't something that was ignored in 1914 or the 1960s. And although Doctor Who has made it a bit of a habit to have black people in unlikely roles in the past, it seemed out of place in this episode that made a point of showcasing other prejudices of the past.

What was with all the reused music in this episode? For the first time in the Capaldi era we hear All the Strange, Strange Creatures and I am the Doctor, which is weird given this is the finale. Also, as it now stands, the "Flavia theme" as it's become known has been used for all the modern Doctors except Matt Smith.

Clara's cameo seemed a bit meh, and really just more or less made the whole memory wipe thing even more pointless. It was nice to see Nardole back and have season 10's TARDIS team reunite for one last good-bye scene. Rusty the Good Dalek was fun if unnecessary.

And oh my cock, for Capaldi's pre-regeneration last words we get a two minute long Moffat Monologue, which to be honest, I zoned out during, and then after all was said and done I realized I missed Capaldi's final words, and re-watched the scene and had to force myself to pay attention. And even now, I still don't remember exactly. I've said it before, but Chibnall really needs to put a "No Monologues" rule in place and strictly enforce it.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

And we thought Eleven's last speech was long-winded!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Enjoyable episode, even if it is a bit lean on story. The ending doesn't make a lot of sense, Brigadier's Grandpa was supposed to have died there, that was kind of a key plot point, yet he lives instead and all is good. I assume he still gets killed in the War anyway?

That was my takeaway, that he survived because of the Christmas Truce but dies later. But then The Twelfth Doctor says he adjusted the time a few hours so Lethbridge-Stewart could survive, so who knows...

While, the jokes about casual sexism in the past were rather amusing, I find it kind of odd they decided to pick their prejudices. Both the First Doctor and the Captain take make sexist comments about Bill and have reactions when they learn of her sexuality, yet neither of them seem to notice she's black, which to be fair isn't something that was ignored in 1914 or the 1960s. And although Doctor Who has made it a bit of a habit to have black people in unlikely roles in the past, it seemed out of place in this episode that made a point of showcasing other prejudices of the past.

Hm, that's a good point and I didn't even think about that. I guess the idea was to focus on just misogyny because of the last few months and the outcry against Whittaker, but I agree that it shouldn't have been ignored. On the other hand, aside from "Thin Ice," I don't think any characters in the past noted her race. I can't recall if they did in "Empress of Mars" or not.

What was with all the reused music in this episode? For the first time in the Capaldi era we hear All the Strange, Strange Creatures and I am the Doctor, which is weird given this is the finale. Also, as it now stands, the "Flavia theme" as it's become known has been used for all the modern Doctors except Matt Smith.

I think it was a combination of reflecting back on The Doctor in modern time and possibly a swan song for Murray Gold. Do we know if he's returning?

Clara's cameo seemed a bit meh, and really just more or less made the whole memory wipe thing even more pointless.

Which I'm fine with. That whole thing was stupid in the first place. If it means we can just ignore "Hell Bent," then I'm all for it.

It was nice to see Nardole back and have season 10's TARDIS team reunite for one last good-bye scene.

That was a nice little moment and reminds me just how much I love Nardole. I really wish we could've had more of him. Bill, too.

 

[Samurai8472]

What was with all the reused music in this episode? For the first time in the Capaldi era we hear All the Strange, Strange Creatures and I am the Doctor, which is weird given this is the finale. Also, as it now stands, the "Flavia theme" as it's become known has been used for all the modern Doctors except Matt Smith.

Just one big trip down memory lane when the show was at it's peak in musical cues.

Early reviews said it was "lazy"

I have to say he brought out all his greatest hits(when the show was at it's peak)

"The mad man with a box"/ "I am the Doctor" variation was an epic piece that pumps you up

I don't even remember any memorable tracks from season 8,9 and 10.