TUC question

[balls]

Just finished TUC and had a question. During the final battle scenes I had a thought that I never did before: why no Starfleet or Klingon presence near Khitomer? In light of Gorkon's assassination, wouldn't the Klingons and Federation want to have beefed up security? The bird of prey and 2 Federstion starships are duking it out in or near orbit of Khitomer. Seems like there would have been some security in the area especially with the stakes being so high. Additionally, the fugitives and rest of Enterprise bridge crew were able to beam into the peace conference and make their way to the Federation president pretty easily. Shouldn't security have been stronger?

 

[Smellmet]

One word - budget. Realistically, there should have been several capital ships in orbit providing security, plus, how did the delegates get there? The same argument applies when the Vengeance is kicking the Enterprise's arse in Earth orbit in STID. It bothers me in both films.

 

[Mage]

Well yeah, like Smellmet said, budget. But you're right, and I never noticed it before.....

 

[somebuddyX]

The President and Azetbur probably both agreed that everyone would come by shuttle so as not to have a big military presence in the area. There would have to be some defenses but would have to be mutually agreed upon by both powers. Probably just equal amount of security personnel and some really great evacuation plans, that should have gone into effect when Enterprise and the Bird of Prey showed up, but didn't because communications/sensors were down or jammed or whatever.
I agree, Kirk and crew should have been rounded up as soon as they beamed in.

 

[Vger23]

It's just another example of the sloppy, rushed, and ultimately flawed script that drove TUC. The entire Khotomer scene is absolute nonsense. There's no orbital security? No sensors to let the ground know that a f#cking space battle is taking place in orbit?? No on-the-ground security? NONE??? I mean, at the very least, you'd expect some internal sensors or some transport inhibitors or something. A head of state of a major power was just ASSASSINATED, and this is the most important historic event of the last 100 years, and their only security measure is to "keep the location secret...??" And even this was bunk because both Chang and Sulu knew the location.

I always have to suppress a laugh when the Klingon casually walks up the long corridor to a very convenient sniper perch with a large suitcase filled with sniper rifle parts without so much as drawing a raised eyebrow from anyone. Then, he's able to cut a hole in the glass, etc without being seen, caught, or interrupted. Then, equally as funny, Kirk and company beam down and everyone starts milling about and acting confused (whilst armed members of an orbiting starship's crew beam in and start running around pointing weapons at people). Klingons yell "Protect the Chancellor" and create a loose circle of bodies around her (really?...That's what you're going to do?). Meanwhile a wild-eyed accused assassin and intergalactic prison escapee is yelling "Mr. President!!! Mr. President!!!!" and charging the head of the entire UFP while the dad from That 70's Show just stands at the podium, looking slightly confused and panicked, like how I look when I realize I just ate sushi that is past the expiration date. Nobody is in position to protect the fully exposed head-of-state from anything, let alone the ranting and raving 60-year-old madman who is about to jump higher and further than Lebron in an attempt to clothes-line tackle the president out of harms way.

I've always put this reason, as well as "how does a starship that has sensors and scanning devices 300 years more advanced than anything we have today fail at simple forensics which could have ended the movie at the 20 minute mark" as reasons I can't get behind this movie with any kind of seriousness.

I hate to bash on it, but it's so filled with foolish "look the other way" contrivances and nonsense that it has aged so horribly.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

^^ This rant reads really funny considering that you have Kirok as your current profile picture.

 

[Vger23]

^^ This rant reads really funny considering that you have Kirok as your current profile picture.

Kirok is the greatest amnesia-based-character in the history of modern literature. I fail to see what you find amusing, sir.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

... the dad from That 70's Show

Please! Clarence Boddicker.

(Note this previous role actually makes his line "This President is not above the law!" very funny, and most likely intentionally-written)

 

[Smellmet]

It's just another example of the sloppy, rushed, and ultimately flawed script that drove TUC. The entire Khotomer scene is absolute nonsense. There's no orbital security? No sensors to let the ground know that a f#cking space battle is taking place in orbit?? No on-the-ground security? NONE??? I mean, at the very least, you'd expect some internal sensors or some transport inhibitors or something. A head of state of a major power was just ASSASSINATED, and this is the most important historic event of the last 100 years, and their only security measure is to "keep the location secret...??" And even this was bunk because both Chang and Sulu knew the location.

I always have to suppress a laugh when the Klingon casually walks up the long corridor to a very convenient sniper perch with a large suitcase filled with sniper rifle parts without so much as drawing a raised eyebrow from anyone. Then, he's able to cut a hole in the glass, etc without being seen, caught, or interrupted. Then, equally as funny, Kirk and company beam down and everyone starts milling about and acting confused (whilst armed members of an orbiting starship's crew beam in and start running around pointing weapons at people). Klingons yell "Protect the Chancellor" and create a loose circle of bodies around her (really?...That's what you're going to do?). Meanwhile a wild-eyed accused assassin and intergalactic prison escapee is yelling "Mr. President!!! Mr. President!!!!" and charging the head of the entire UFP while the dad from That 70's Show just stands at the podium, looking slightly confused and panicked, like how I look when I realize I just ate sushi that is past the expiration date. Nobody is in position to protect the fully exposed head-of-state from anything, let alone the ranting and raving 60-year-old madman who is about to jump higher and further than Lebron in an attempt to clothes-line tackle the president out of harms way.

I've always put this reason, as well as "how does a starship that has sensors and scanning devices 300 years more advanced than anything we have today fail at simple forensics which could have ended the movie at the 20 minute mark" as reasons I can't get behind this movie with any kind of seriousness.

I hate to bash on it, but it's so filled with foolish "look the other way" contrivances and nonsense that it has aged so horribly.

Great post sir. I don't think I'll enjoy TUC quite as much again.

 

[SPCTRE]

Classic "we're the only ship in the area, yes that includes our own back yard" syndrome. Happens all the time.

This syndrome is why "how large is Starfleet, exactly?" threads often get so heated.

 

[Vger23]

Great post sir. I don't think I'll enjoy TUC quite as much again.

Well now I fell bad

 

[Smellmet]

Well now I fell bad

It's a risk you take frequenting this site. I actually found your post really funny.

Ultimately I'm not that serious though. I'll always rate TUC. It's no longer in the top three for me though. I would rate all three JJ movies above it, TWOK and TMP.

 

[Vger23]

I actually rate it second-to-last amongst the TOS films (TVH is my least favorite).

That doesn't mean I don't like it, I just happen to like it less than the others.

It's a risk you take frequenting this site. I actually found your post really funny.

Ultimately I'm not that serious though. I'll always rate TUC. It's no longer in the top three for me though. I would rate all three JJ movies above it, TWOK and TMP.

 

[Timo]

I don't get the part where security would have helped make things more secure. These folks are trying to kill each other, to genocidal degree if at all possible - why would seeing lots and lots of their weapons and soldiers present make anyone feel happier?

In any case, the obvious plot point is that security actively lets the assassination take place. Both Starfleet and the Klingons are in on it, to a sufficient degree to already have performed one joint assassination of a head of state. If we see an empty corridor, then, it's empty for a purpose and by design (as opposed to, say, that balcony or causeway on the establishing outdoor shot where Klingon and Starfleet personnel jointly guard the area).

Keeping starships on orbit would have allowed for rapid retaliation, which is what neither of the scheming parties want because their top representatives are down there personally. What is needed is for the irrelevant Archduke to be gunned down on some backwater planet so that the two courts can bow to each other with icy impoliteness, depart to their respective War Room planets, and formally launch the war from positions of safety. And this is easy for the conspirators to achieve with a virtually endless pool of insincere but perfectly good arguments about why warships hovering over the conference site would be a poor idea - who on the planet would not want the skies cleared of ready-to-eat WMDs?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vger23]

I don't get the part where security would have helped make things more secure. These folks are trying to kill each other, to genocidal degree if at all possible - why would seeing lots and lots of their weapons and soldiers present make anyone feel happier?

In any case, the obvious plot point is that security actively lets the assassination take place. Both Starfleet and the Klingons are in on it, to a sufficient degree to already have performed one joint assassination of a head of state. If we see an empty corridor, then, it's empty for a purpose and by design (as opposed to, say, that balcony or causeway on the establishing outdoor shot where Klingon and Starfleet personnel jointly guard the area).

Keeping starships on orbit would have allowed for rapid retaliation, which is what neither of the scheming parties want because their top representatives are down there personally. What is needed is for the irrelevant Archduke to be gunned down on some backwater planet so that the two courts can bow to each other with icy impoliteness, depart to their respective War Room planets, and formally launch the war from positions of safety. And this is easy for the conspirators to achieve with a virtually endless pool of insincere but perfectly good arguments about why warships hovering over the conference site would be a poor idea - who on the planet would not want the skies cleared of ready-to-eat WMDs?

Timo Saloniemi

Impressive fanwank, but still fanwank.

The real answer is that the script was incredibly rushed and sloppy.

 

[DonIago]

I thought the real answer was budget.

 

[Timo]

Impressive fanwank, but still fanwank.The real answer is that the script was incredibly rushed and sloppy.

All scripts are; the more simplistic ones just don't suffer that much from it.

No, I don't think it's valid at all to consider it a fanwank that the assassinations were government-sponsored and the absence of security a logical plot element. That's how the story went - and that's how similar stories go outside the scifi genre, too. The bad apples are powerful and stack the odds against the hero, but in such a way that none of the average good guys notice anything amiss until it's too late.

Step by step, the writers followed the usual format: they chose to show security arrangements in place (joint Starfleet/Klingon guards) but then emphasize the "neutrality" and "secrecy" parts to excuse their next move, which was to show the evil deed conducted by those very folks who asked for the neutrality and secrecy in the first place.

Timo Saloniemi