TSFS - Let's assume Kirk was thinking clearly

[Mr Silver]

Would it not have been more efficient to beam directly and simultaneously aboard the BOP as the Klingon party beamed to the Enterprise? Both ships' shields were down, I mean even if the BOP still had working shields it needed to take them down to beam it's boarding party over. This would have left Kruge and Maltz as the sole occupants of the BOP against Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, Chekov and Sulu and from what we've seen, Kirk could possibly have handled both Kruge and Maltz alone.

In fact, why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis or easier - space? Problem solved, they could then beam over to the BOP and use it's sensors which were already locked onto the surface, beamed up Spock, Saavik and David (his body, but maybe he would have survived had Kirk not wasted time talking smack with Kruge instead of pulling the old prefix gambit) by isolating anything without Klingon blood (sure, they might have picked up a few evolved microbes, but that would surely make for a delicacy right? Bonus!), scavenged the BOP for spare parts and repaired the Enterprise and then warped to Vulcan as they all had a good old laugh about how easy it was to steal a Federation starship, make it to a locked down sector of space and then defeat an entire Klingon crew with a malfunctioning ship!

Seriously, why not?

 

[JediKnightButler]

Interesting ideas but IMHO they would have made for less drama/excitement and, in all probability, the Enterprise was probably too damaged at that point to do anything too fancy with any of the systems. Plus, I don't think that they knew for sure how many Klingon crewmembers had been left on the ship, how many had beamed over to the Enterprise, and how many were on the planet surface and the Klingons were still holding Saavik and "Spock" hostage. The crew had to get down there as soon as possible to rescue them or they might have been killed too. Personally, the scene where they trap a bunch of the Klingons on the Enterprise and then blow it up is one of my favorite all-time scenes in a movie. Your ideas sort of remind me of DS9's "Return to Grace" episode where Kira, Dukat, et. al switch ships with the crew of a Klingon BOP, which is also a really cool scene!

 

[R. Star]

Interesting ideas but IMHO they would have made for less drama/excitement and, in all probability, the Enterprise was probably too damaged at that point to do anything too fancy with any of the systems. Plus, I don't think that they knew for sure how many Klingon crewmembers had been left on the ship, how many had beamed over to the Enterprise, and how many were on the planet surface and the Klingons were still holding Saavik and "Spock" hostage. The crew had to get down there as soon as possible to rescue them or they might have been killed too. Personally, the scene where they trap a bunch of the Klingons on the Enterprise and then blow it up is one of my favorite all-time scenes in a movie. Your ideas sort of remind me of DS9's "Return to Grace" episode where Kira, Dukat, et. al switch ships with the crew of a Klingon BOP, which is also a really cool scene!

Actually that would have been cool to do the Kira/Dukat switch. The Klingons sabotage the self-destruct and then Kirk has to give the order to destroy his own ship. That'd be far more dramatic than... "I... have had.... enough of you!"

 

[TommyR01D]

It would have been great to see Kirk's face as the idea popped into his head... and then we see the Enterprise exploding. Oops!

 

[Therin of Andor]

why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis or easier - space?

Does that sound like the Starfleet way to solve a problem?

 

[R. Star]

why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis or easier - space?

Does that sound like the Starfleet way to solve a problem?

Because setting a bomb for them to walk into and a hand to hand grudge match before you throw them into said volcano is so much more ethical and sporting.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

^

 

[Therin of Andor]

Because setting a bomb for them to walk into and a hand to hand grudge match before you throw them into said volcano is so much more ethical and sporting.

Probably, yes. The Klingons were breaking and entering Starfleet property, and Kirk offered Kruge a helping hand on the volcano's rim before he refused it.

 

[R. Star]

Because setting a bomb for them to walk into and a hand to hand grudge match before you throw them into said volcano is so much more ethical and sporting.

Probably, yes. The Klingons were breaking and entering Starfleet property, and Kirk offered Kruge a helping hand on the volcano's rim before he refused it.

So because they were breaking and entering it's alright to blow them up, but attacking and destroying a Federation ship(Grissom), taking prisoners, attacking Enterprise and executing one of the said prisoners isn't enough to warrant a hostile response?

 

[Therin of Andor]

So because they were breaking and entering it's alright to blow them up, but attacking and destroying a Federation ship(Grissom), taking prisoners, attacking Enterprise and executing one of the said prisoners isn't enough to warrant a hostile response?

I'm saying that Kirk ordering Scotty to transport the crew of a Klingon vessel into a volcano, or dispersing their atoms into space, is not the Starfleet way. Allowing a boarding party to decide to beam over to a vessel that has a self-protection device operating, and Kirk offering a hand to an endangered opponent after a fist fight, are not as morally-bankrupt choices as your suggestions.

Kirk had no idea who else might have been on that Klingon ship. There may have been innocent prisoners or citizens there.

 

[sonak]

So because they were breaking and entering it's alright to blow them up, but attacking and destroying a Federation ship(Grissom), taking prisoners, attacking Enterprise and executing one of the said prisoners isn't enough to warrant a hostile response?

I'm saying that Kirk ordering Scotty to transport the crew of a Klingon vessel into a volcano, or dispersing their atoms into space, is not the Starfleet way. Allowing a boarding party to decide to beam over to a vessel that has a self-protection device operating, and Kirk offering a hand to an endangered opponent after a fist fight, are not as morally-bankrupt choices as your suggestions.

Kirk had no idea who else might have been on that Klingon ship. There may have been innocent prisoners or citizens there.

"morally bankrupt?" Kruge had launched an unprovoked attack on a science vessel, taken prisoners, including civilian prisoners, and ordered the execution of one of those prisoners.

I don't think Kirk was under any moral obligation to treat the Klingons there, who were committing acts of war, with kid gloves.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano. That's what the OP supposed: "Why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis?"

 

[Mr Silver]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano.

But it's cool to kick a guy in the head until he falls into a river of lava?

Do I have to remind everybody that they weren't technically part of Starfleet at this point in time and were acting rogue. I mean they opened fire upon a BOP as soon as it de-cloaked without actually waiting to see whether they armed their weapons or tried to establish contact.

 

[BillJ]

But it's cool to kick a guy in the head until he falls into a river of lava?

For shits and giggles. What exactly would you do if you tried to help someone and they grabbed your foot and tried to pull you into a river of lava?

It may not be "cool", but it was necessary.

 

[R. Star]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano. That's what the OP supposed: "Why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis?"

So tell me... what exactly is the moral difference between beaming a group of very hostile aliens who have already destroyed one Federation ship and executed a prisoner before attacking your ship into space/volcanos as opposed to blowing them up with a bomb, kicking them into a volcano, shooting them with a phaser, blowing them up with a bamboo gunpowder bazoka, imapling them with a sword, or anything else we've seen the good guys do to beat the baddies in TOS and the movies?

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano. That's what the OP supposed: "Why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis?"

So tell me... what exactly is the moral difference between beaming a group of very hostile aliens who have already destroyed one Federation ship and executed a prisoner before attacking your ship into space/volcanos as opposed to blowing them up with a bomb...

For me there is a huge difference. They beam aboard your ship, they are invaders and being soldiers they know the possibility exists they could die. Beaming them into a volcano would be cruel punishment as would scattering there atoms.

 

[BillJ]

I mean they opened fire upon a BOP as soon as it de-cloaked without actually waiting to see whether they armed their weapons or tried to establish contact.

I swear, do some people actually watch the movies...

SULU: Klingon Bird of Prey, sir! She's arming torpedoes!

That line was given as the ship decloaked.

What exactly would be Kirk's reason to wait and communicate with the Klingons? They are unable to contact the Grissom and the Bird-of-Prey is arming weapons as she's decloaking.

 

[sonak]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano. That's what the OP supposed: "Why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis?"

So tell me... what exactly is the moral difference between beaming a group of very hostile aliens who have already destroyed one Federation ship and executed a prisoner before attacking your ship into space/volcanos as opposed to blowing them up with a bomb...

For me there is a huge difference. They beam aboard your ship, they are invaders and being soldiers they know the possibility exists they could die. Beaming them into a volcano would be cruel punishment as would scattering there atoms.

Er, even if they weren't "invading" the ship in person, they were still soldiers in the Klingon Defense Forces who were participating in unprovoked and illegal acts of aggression and had killed a shipfull of people. They were already aware that they were legitimate targets.

 

[R. Star]

Starfleet still doesn't beam a crew of an enemy race into a volcano. That's what the OP supposed: "Why did Scotty not just lock onto the entire BOP crew and beam them into the middle of a volcanic eruption on Genesis?"

So tell me... what exactly is the moral difference between beaming a group of very hostile aliens who have already destroyed one Federation ship and executed a prisoner before attacking your ship into space/volcanos as opposed to blowing them up with a bomb...

For me there is a huge difference. They beam aboard your ship, they are invaders and being soldiers they know the possibility exists they could die. Beaming them into a volcano would be cruel punishment as would scattering there atoms.

A quick, instant and painless death? You're right, we should beat them to death, impale them, shoot them, or any other number of ways that take longer to die and are more painful. Much more moral.

Perhaps Kirk should have just politely asked them not to attack his ship or not execute any more prisoners without cause.

Blowing up another ship? Executing a prisoner? That doesn't warrant a hostile response, but the second they beam on your ship, you can blow them up. Riiight.

 

[Mr Silver]

I mean they opened fire upon a BOP as soon as it de-cloaked without actually waiting to see whether they armed their weapons or tried to establish contact.

I swear, do some people actually watch the movies...

SULU: Klingon Bird of Prey, sir! She's arming torpedoes!

That line was given as the ship decloaked.

What exactly would be Kirk's reason to wait and communicate with the Klingons? They are unable to contact the Grissom and the Bird-of-Prey is arming weapons as she's decloaking.

Woops! It's seems that I forgot that particular piece of dialogue.

Of course, my problem with that scene is the fact that Kirk doesn't immediately raise shields (torpedoes would be useless against full strength shields) as the BOP decloaks, in fact why didn't Scotty or Sulu (who were pretty much handling everything except comms and science) have one of their respective fingers on the shields button during the whole "is it a cloaked ship or a subspace distortion" debate?

Anyway, it just adds to the idea that Kirk and co. weren't thinking clearly, it was only a few weeks ago that they were caught out by not raising their shields at the first sign of trouble. The worst thing that could have happened was the shields would not raise and everything would go to hell like it did anyway, the conversation with Kruge would still happen (because of his ego - "take prisoners, screw the usual practice of destroying any and all enemies") and the Enterprise crew would still formulate the self-destruct plan - again I refer you all to the incredible missed opportunity that they had to beam the entire Klingon crew to somewhere where they wouldn't be a problem like Space or a volcano on Genesis, or perhaps the Enterprise brig? (for those of you still convinced that Kirk and co. were doing things the "Starfleet" way, despite the fact they all decided to murder most of the Klingon crew by blowing up the Enterprise).

It's really out of character and we all know that the reason that things went this way was because the Enterprise needed to be destroyed and somebody felt that Kirk and the villain needed to have a physical encounter because it was absent from TWOK.

In terms of the morality of it all, Kirk did say that to Kruge that "your presence here is an act of war" where the usual rules don't apply, he was also left with a clapped out starship a limited crew with an average age of 50 and plenty of reasons to believe that they would all be executed upon allowing the Klingon crew aboard. With resources limited, a hostile force about to descend upon you and the very real possibility that your life and the lives of your friends are about come to an end - you would jump at any opportunity in which to break out of this predicament. It just so happened that Kirk ignored the first and most obvious opportunity (and easily the most efficient).