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Troi's Appearance...if Crosby got the job?

Bry_Sinclair

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If Roddenberry hadn't decided to switch around Sirtis and Crosby as he did and we got Macha Hernandez instead of Natasha Yar, how do you think the character of Troi might have looked?

The black eyes suited Sirtis' hair and skin tone, but Im not sure how they would've suited Crosby. I always think that had she been the Counsellor purple eyes would've suited her better--definitely would've looked more alien.

Anyone else have any thoughts on how Crosby-Troi might've looked?
 
Marina looked very sexy with her hair frizzed beyond belief, in the early days. And she looked much better without the contacts. She would've been even more beautiful, looking more natural. But ... see, the thing is ... she's short. As a security woman, I don't know ... it might've been inadvertantly funny, like if she had to rough up a Klingon. I'm not sure that it would've worked.

Crosby and Ro were the two Alpha Babes of TNG's run. I love how statuesque Denise is. Her looks are also sharper than Marina's, so going to this Amazon about your personal problems might not have played out, in my view. I mean ... imagine how intimidated Barclay would've been having to lift his head just to look at her. Wouldn't have worked! But yeah, the black contacts would've been too much to look at, she didn't have the colouring for dark, much less completely black, eyes. Gene made the right - and probably only - decision, in casting Marina and Denise the way that he finally did.
 
I did not like Troi's hairstyles early on. I thought she looked much better in uniform with her hair down.

But if it had been Denise Crosby at the helm when the D crashed, the jokes would and endless cacophony of dumb blonde jokes.
 
But ... see, the thing is ... she's short. As a security woman, I don't know ... it might've been inadvertantly funny, like if she had to rough up a Klingon. I'm not sure that it would've worked.
Well, Marina's 5'3", same height as Jenette Goldstein, whose Vasquez character in Aliens inspired Roddenberry to come up with Macha Hernandez. Goldstein auditioned for Macha as well.
 
Well, Marina's 5'3", same height as Jenette Goldstein, whose Vasquez character in Aliens inspired Roddenberry to come up with Macha Hernandez. Goldstein auditioned for Macha as well.
How about that? Goldstein would've been an excellent choice for Security Chief! Wow ... didn't know she was 5 foot 3, though. What could you do in that case, I suppose? A short Tasha would have to be fine. I still like it that the tall one ended up with the job. I just think it looks better ...
 
Wow ... didn't know she was 5 foot 3, though. What could you do in that case, I suppose?
Well, actor Alan Ladd had a fairly long and successful career in film, despite being sometimes shorter than his leading ladies at 5'6". That's when the illusion of the camera makes a short actor look the same size as a tall one by putting him on a box, or the tall guy in a trench.
 
Well, Marina's 5'3", same height as Jenette Goldstein, whose Vasquez character in Aliens inspired Roddenberry to come up with Macha Hernandez. Goldstein auditioned for Macha as well.
How about that? Goldstein would've been an excellent choice for Security Chief! Wow ... didn't know she was 5 foot 3, though. What could you do in that case, I suppose? A short Tasha would have to be fine. I still like it that the tall one ended up with the job. I just think it looks better ...

You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?
 
You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?
In S2, after Geordi is promoted to Chief Engineer, Worf could've slipped in at the Conn and gotten all the same stories that focused on his Klingon honour--none of which had anything to do with him as Security Chief--whilst being on hand for added muscle to an away team if/when needed.

Problem solved.
 
You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?
In S2, after Geordi is promoted to Chief Engineer, Worf could've slipped in at the Conn and gotten all the same stories that focused on his Klingon honour--none of which had anything to do with him as Security Chief--whilst being on hand for added muscle to an away team if/when needed.

Problem solved.

Here is what i mean by the Worf Effect:

Want a quick way to show how dangerous one of your unknown characters is? Simple, make them do well or win in a fight with a character that the audience already knows is tough. This establishes them as willing to fight and marks them as sufficiently dangerous. For new villains, it's common for them to pick up the toughest character among the heroes and hurl them across the room or otherwise take them out in one blow, thus showing that they are the real deal. When used sparingly and appropriately, this is a powerful way to establish said villain as a serious and credible threat, leaving the audience thinking, "Wow, they just beat up Worf! They must be bad news!" But if the same character is repeatedly used as the target of displays like these, then the character begins to look weak, and if abused, their Badassery begins to look more like an Informed Ability than anything else. Worf Had the Flu is sometimes used to justify Worf's poor showing. The Worf Barrage is when an "ultimate" attack or technique is defeated this way instead of a character. If a new villain introduces themself by beating the previous villain, that's Make Way for the New Villains (a subtrope). When Worf gets beaten emotionally rather than physically, that's Break the Badass. Applied to an entire military? You may get a Red Shirt Army. Compare Badass in Distress and The World's Expert on Getting Killed, both of which can overlap. Killing off a Red Shirt or two is a slightly different method for achieving a similar effect. If the character beats up a whole army's worth of Worfs, Conservation of Ninjutsu is probably at work. Contrast Fight Dracula, in which a writer has a pre-established character (as opposed to a new one) demonstrate their awesomeness by fighting Dracula (but not necessarily winning). See also the analysis page for some side analysis of this trope. Named for the tendency in Star Trek: The Next Generation for hostile creatures to do that very thing to Worf.
From:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

More:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheWorfEffect/LiveActionTV
 
IAnyone else have any thoughts on how Crosby-Troi might've looked?
Crosby (iirc) had her hair cut short especially for the role of Yar, so it might have been left long as Troi, or even had a fall added. And her hair wouldn't necesarily have remained blond.

Her speaking style and body language might also have been different to accomidate the calmer position of ship's councilor.
 
You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?
In S2, after Geordi is promoted to Chief Engineer, Worf could've slipped in at the Conn and gotten all the same stories that focused on his Klingon honour--none of which had anything to do with him as Security Chief--whilst being on hand for added muscle to an away team if/when needed.

Problem solved.

TV Tropes aside. It might've been interesting had Worf been made Chief Engineer had Macha been on the ship. All the wonderful quotes we'd have gotten:

"There is no honor in multiplying my repair estimates by a factor of four!"

"It is a good day to vent the drive plasma!"
 
I'm too accustomed to the roles they already have. I feel like Crosby seems like she is more intimidating, which is good for the security chief. Plus her height works better. I wonder what Sirtis would look like with Crosby's short hair cut and vice versa. :p
 
Well, Marina's 5'3", same height as Jenette Goldstein, whose Vasquez character in Aliens inspired Roddenberry to come up with Macha Hernandez. Goldstein auditioned for Macha as well.
How about that? Goldstein would've been an excellent choice for Security Chief! Wow ... didn't know she was 5 foot 3, though. What could you do in that case, I suppose? A short Tasha would have to be fine. I still like it that the tall one ended up with the job. I just think it looks better ...

You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?

Had Marina been cast as Macha and Denise as Troi, we would've likely seen Troi leave the show and Macha stay. In fact, the producers were close to getting rid of Troi in the first season because they didn't know how to make the character work.

See: http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/the-one-with-marina-sirtis/

But the solution is obvious, Worf would be the new councilor!

I can see it now.

Barclay, there is no honor in making hologram fantasies of me, go to your quarters and commit Hegh'bat.
 
But ... see, the thing is ... she's short. As a security woman, I don't know ... it might've been inadvertantly funny, like if she had to rough up a Klingon. I'm not sure that it would've worked.

Since Hernandez was based on Jeanette Goldstein's fantastic Vasquez from "Aliens" (which came out as TNG production was beginning), I'd say the character would've had a great chance of working.
 
Had Marina been cast as Macha and Denise as Troi, we would've likely seen Troi leave ...
Why would Troi have left? Crosby left the series because she felt she wasn't being given enough to do on the show, her side of the story was that she was told during the hiring process that Yar was going to (among other things) be leading the away team portion of the scripts, basically Yar was going to be first banana and get the lines and screen time that eventually went to Riker. This didn't happen.

As Troi, and assuming Crosby worked out in the role, the lack of meaningful screen time might not have occurred and wouldn't have been an issue. Crosby would have been with the series for the entire seven years run and also been in the TNG movies.

You realize that is she had been security chief there would be no Worf effect, don't you?
Well there could have been a similar effect. I've seen Marina Sirtis play a female prison guard in a movie, so she can play the badass bitch. And I've seen her in a reoccurring role as the director of the Isreali Massad, so she can play hard as nails.

Once established as the short but powerful Head of Security it would have been possible to show Yar being thrown around to prove the alien of the week was something to be reckoned with.

Although imho that storyline tactic was vastly overused.
 
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Had Marina been cast as Macha and Denise as Troi, we would've likely seen Troi leave ...
Why would Troi have left? Crosby left the series because she felt she wasn't being given enough to do on the show, her side of the story was that she was told during the hiring process that Yar was going to (among other things) be leading the away team portion of the scripts, basically Yar was going to be first banana and get the lines and screen time that eventually went to Riker. This didn't happen.

As Troi, and assuming Crosby worked out in the role, the lack of meaningful screen time might not have occurred and wouldn't have been an issue. Crosby would have been with the series for the entire seven years run and also been in the TNG movies.

The rest of my post said why Troi would've left the show — my quote is clipped off too soon. And I realize why Crosby left the show. I was speaking more about the character.

As stated by Sirtis in a recent interview, Troi was written out of several episodes because the writers couldn't figure out what to do with her. She was very close to being dropped, not because of her acting abilities but because the writer's couldn't write the character.

Sirtis' interview is here: ]http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/the-one-with-marina-sirtis/


Had Marina been cast as Macha and Denise as Troi, we would've likely seen Troi leave the show and Macha stay. In fact, the producers were close to getting rid of Troi in the first season because they didn't know how to make the character work.

See: http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/the-one-with-marina-sirtis/
 
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