Trip and T'pol come together without having Vulcan neuropressure

[sekundant]

First, I would like to thank HopefulRomantic very much for the warmly welcome and encouraging me to starting this thread.

One of the most common critic to Enterprise is over sexualization of T'Pol. Yes, catsuits. (I have to open a pharantesis here. My mother is huge fan of TOS and I do not even remember when I sow first time in my life the fabolous Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. Star Trek was always there and part of our lives. And beautiful scantily dressed ladies were always part of Star Trek. Later then, they keep this tradition, remember how long Ms Deanna Troi walked with her half open right breast in legendary green costume and I do not remember that any one was upset about this way. I have to also say, unfortunately Ms Troi did not get a chance to be more than eye-candy, which we cannot say about T'Pol! OK, sorry I am very calm again. )

And the other issue with Trip and Vulcan neuropressure. I still think it was maybe not the best way but also not worst way to bring closer these very different characters. They do not only touch the other ones body but they begin to talk each other, aand not only about work. Also they claim the massage time only for theirselves, far away from other crew members and the extraordinary stress which they consume at expanse.

Ahhm, what would be your suggestion, what would be better way to make them find a way to each other? I would be very happy, specially the ones who are not agree with the massage sessions would write their own version.

I am curious about your answers! Thank you!

 

[TrickyDickie]

It might have been interesting to have Decker and Ilia on Archer's Enterprise, rather than Trip and T'Pol. Could have been played by the same actors, though. Always room for a plausible explanation for getting them from Kirk's time back into the past. Then the Deltan sexuality could have been explored....to a reasonable degree, of course.

Just a fun little what-if.

 

[sekundant]

Then the Deltan sexuality could have been explored....to a reasonable degree, of course

Ahh, if you didn't do it, you have to read Star Trek Enterprise-Rise of Federation Uncertain Logic. I give no spoilers, but you will be sure impressed.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Ahh, if you didn't do it, you have to read Star Trek Enterprise-Rise of Federation Uncertain Logic. I give no spoilers, but you will be sure impressed.

Thanks....I will definitely get a copy of that soon.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I could've done without the idiotic hand-bras. "Oh! Here's T'Pol and she's naked!" yeah but ... Trip's to her back and she's facing the camera holding her tits in a cross-armed fashion, I mean ... what were the people making this thinking? Just so incredibly stupid and crass ... no style at all.

 

[sekundant]

Just so incredibly stupid and crass ... no style at all.

yep, I know what you mean. For me it was soo senseless. I wondered why should a Vulcan behave like this? Possibilities are:

1-She knows about human culture and doesn't want to disturb Trip with her nudity.
a) Are we sure after 150 years will be the nudity still something to shame? Think about how our ancestors get dressed at the beginning of 20th century on the beach? How could they react if they could see Ipanema beach today? Culture and ethics change with the time.
b) Trip cannot see her breasts from her back, it is illogical to hide them. ( I assume they had some good camera people who can find a right angle to hide the things.)

2- It is also customary for Vulcans.
Really? Breasts are for the mammalians (here also humanoids) breastfeeding organ for the offsprings. Why logic driven Vulcan culture stamp them something similar as primary sexual organs?

Whatever, it was cheap and "harder, harder" thing made the scene cringey (not the breasts but the script).
Then Trip gave slaps on T'Pol's leg and things went unexpectedly hilarious.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The worst thing about it? T'Pol's swinging udders weren't even real ...

 

[XCV330]

I just figured the director had a foot thing and found a way to get it done on in Trek. Tarantino will find a way, mark my words.

yep, I know what you mean. For me it was soo senseless. I wondered why should a Vulcan behave like this? Possibilities are:

1-She knows about human culture and doesn't want to disturb Trip with her nudity.
a) Are we sure after 150 years will be the nudity still something to shame? Think about how our ancestors get dressed at the beginning of 20th century on the beach? How could they react if they could see Ipanema beach today? Culture and ethics change with the time.
b) Trip cannot see her breasts from her back, it is illogical to hide them. ( I assume they had some good camera people who can find a right angle to hide the things.)

2- It is also customary for Vulcans.
Really? Breasts are for the mammalians (here also humanoids) breastfeeding organ for the offsprings. Why logic driven Vulcan culture stamp them something similar as primary sexual organs?

Whatever, it was cheap and "harder, harder" thing made the scene cringey (not the breasts but the script).
Then Trip gave slaps on T'Pol's leg and things went unexpectedly hilarious.

Mammals have breasts used for feeding young and yes, that's their purpose for every other species of mamalls.
Cept with humans they do have a secondary nature. Why else would they often be so big. Evolution doesn't need them to be.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/may/14/breast-size-evolution

If they are attractors for humans, apparently they are for most of the humanoid Trek species. And Vulcans, the non-catsuited variety at least, seem to like being dressed head to toe. She might have been embarassed.

 

[ALF]

And the other issue with Trip and Vulcan neuropressure. I still think it was maybe not the best way but also not worst way to bring closer these very different characters. They do not only touch the other ones body but they begin to talk each other, aand not only about work. Also they claim the massage time only for theirselves, far away from other crew members and the extraordinary stress which they consume at expanse.

Realistically, the whole shameful affair was likely a result of Phlox's boredom. He was the one who insisted to Trip and P'Pol to try and continue the therapy sessions - he also threatened to use Aldebaran mud leeches on Trip if the neuropressure sessions weren't productive.

Phlox's culture is polyamorous. I think he sensed sexual tension between Trip and T'Pol and played doctor-matchmaker. When you rewatch the entire series, this whole Vulcan neuropressure plot thread is extremely absurd - although no less entertaining, so there's that.

 

[sekundant]

The worst thing about it? T'Pol's swinging udders weren't even real ...

Ohh come on, we are talking about Hollywood. Even almighty Shatner has toupee at his best time!

I just figured the director had a foot thing and found a way to get it done on in Trek. Tarantino will find a way, mark my words.

Ohh, you have the point XCV3300, I never notice that before! I feel I am enlightened, thank you

Realistically, the whole shameful affair was likely a result of Phlox's boredom. He was the one who insisted to Trip and P'Pol to try and continue the therapy sessions - he also threatened to use Aldebaran mud leeches on Trip if the neuropressure sessions weren't productive.

Phlox's culture is polyamorous. I think he sensed sexual tension between Trip and T'Pol and played doctor-matchmaker. When you rewatch the entire series, this whole Vulcan neuropressure plot thread is extremely absurd - although no less entertaining, so there's that.

Why shameful affair? As you said, without Vulcan neuropressure thing, there was sexual tension between both of them and curiosity for each other was always present. It was only matter of time and they need a reason to overcome obstacles.
Aaand that was the why I began with this tread to discuss about how could they became closer without very heavily criticized VNP sessions which I found also a little bit flat and not thought out concept. What would be your idea?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Ohh come on, we are talking about Hollywood. Even almighty Shatner has toupee at his best time!

That's right! Shatner without his rug is like cornflakes without the milk!

 

[It'sMe]

It seemed to me that she had real feelings for Jonathan but he couldn't be with anyone in the crew. She and Tripp were physically attracted to each other but more so due to vicinity.

 

[Nyotarules]

They can get together the same way all the other Vulcan Human couples got together, since I doubt 90 years after First Contact they are the first to be curious about each other.

 

[2takesfrakes]

It seemed to be that she had real feelings for Jonathan but he couldn't be with anyone in the crew. She had Tripp were physically attracted to each other but more so due to vicinity.

I suspect that no ENT fan wanted to see Jonathan with T'Pol. He was old enough to be her father, practically. Unless the intention was to kill the series (and possibly the franchise), then yeah ... go with this idea. But, fortunately, Common Sense & Good Taste prevailed. Trip was the only choice T'Pol really had, if she had to select from the ship's crew. What with their T-alike names and ... and so forth.

 

[2takesfrakes]

 

[sekundant]

I suspect that no ENT fan wanted to see Jonathan with T'Pol

Ohh dear, since youtube suggests to me Archer/ Soval shippers videos , I believe anyone can desire any couple. And I personally know a great Trekkie lady, who is sure that, if we could get regular seven seasons, we should see how Archer and T'pol become grandiose lovers. ( Am I the only one who hates Twilight episode which is originally written for Janeway & Chakotay and rejected by producers and recycled for ENT? Not only for the "evolved" relationship with an amnesiac person but odalisque T'Pol, pessimistic Phlox, teenager Trip and all other characters who are acting very irritating way. Only Travis.. Everything stays same for him: he is dead and even no one cares or notices.)

They can get together the same way all the other Vulcan Human couples got together, since I doubt 90 years after First Contact they are the first to be curious about each other.

I also doubt about this "first relationship" story after so long time coexistence. Nonetheless, is it not all about art to show/ to describe us the usual things in a captivating aspects? Of course we can discuss about how can we call a tv show or a consuming good like Trek franchise as an art, but I think we let it be as it is.

I do not want to repeat myself twenty times but maybe it is kind of occupational disease for me not to accept criticism without solution. And I want to really know from the criticizers of VNP their recommendations.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Isn't T'Pol meant to be in her 80s? And how old was Sarek when he got together with Amanda? And then Perrin?

Not saying Archer/T'Pol does anything for me, but the age gap, especially in sci-fi doesn't really mean much.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Journey to Babel:

MCCOY: Mister Ambassador, I understand you had retired before this conference was called. Forgive my curiosity, but as a doctor, I'm interested in Vulcan physiology. Isn't it unusual for a Vulcan to retire at your age? After all, you're only a hundred and two.

SAREK: One hundred two point four three seven precisely, Doctor, measured in your years. I had other concerns.

So, by OUR years, Sarek's got to be at least a hundred years older than Perin, who's from the 24th Century and around 65 years, herself.

 

[sekundant]

T'Pol is 62 as she joined the Enterprise crew!

From Zero Hour:
Trip: You look nice like this – kinda like an old oil painting.
T'Pol: I am not old. I will only be 66 years old on my next birthday!

From the "The Bounty" Episode we know that she had never before consumed the "pon farr". So, she is still very young, but I am not sure if there is a fixed age for the being mature for the occasion. I assume I have read at the 2002 book "Strange New Worlds V" that Sarek's mother T'Rama gave his birth at age of 55 something.


Archer is 39, and Trip is 30 years old during the Broken Bow episodes. I think, for the love issue with T'Pol their ages are not so relevant.

 

[thribs]

Vulcan’s live up to 200 years so their ages match, according to Species.