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Trills in Starfleet - a question for the hivemind...

The idea that Trill could be Federation members and keep joining a secret is a total nonsense, anyway, though. What, do Trill novels and holovision shows never mention joining? News broadcasts? Or do they just not let offworlders into bookstores and libraries? I'd just as soon toss out "The Host" entirely (though I take your point, Paper Moon).
 
I think DS9 retconned so much about "The Host" that we pretty much have to accept that its events didn't happen exactly as we were shown. Remember how Gene Roddenberry sometimes responded to fans' continuity quibbles by suggesting that TOS was just an inaccurate dramatization of the "real" events? Like, saying that Klingons had always had ridged foreheads, but the original show didn't have the budget to depict them correctly. I think we have to treat "The Host" the same way.
 
As I recall, Trill: Unjoined included the alternate looking Trill and described them as a Trill ethnic minority; same species, phenotypical diversity. Like humans have, except for the Trill it's ridgy vs. spotted, whereas for human ethnic groups the divergences are primarily skin-colour based with some particular tendencies toward overall body size and specific facial features in certain groups.
 
^I'm aware of that, but there are still plenty of other things about "The Host" that don't mesh with what later screen and prose works have established about the Trill. For that matter, the whole "We know so little about them" thing doesn't make sense even within the context of "The Host" itself, considering that one of "them" is a second-generation Federation ambassador. So there are things about that episode that are best ignored.
 
I dunno, Vulcans have seemed to keep their reproductive process a closely guarded secret too, and they were founding members. If we accept that one society can keep such a large secret, we kind of have to accept that others can too.

On a whole, the Federation doesn't seem to pry too deeply into their members' affairs, if said members don't want them to. Just look at Ardana. ("Oh, sorry, we never mentioned our entire subjected underclass? Must have slipped our minds!")
 
I dunno, Vulcans have seemed to keep their reproductive process a closely guarded secret too, and they were founding members. If we accept that one society can keep such a large secret, we kind of have to accept that others can too.

But there's a difference between one major secret being kept and "We know so little about them." I'm not questioning the general premise that the existence of Trill symbionts was kept largely secret; I'm questioning "The Host"'s assertion that the Federation knew hardly anything about the Trill even though they'd been members for a couple of generations at least. That was just silly.


On a whole, the Federation doesn't seem to pry too deeply into their members' affairs, if said members don't want them to. Just look at Ardana. ("Oh, sorry, we never mentioned our entire subjected underclass? Must have slipped our minds!")

I tend to see Ardana as a recently joined member that was rushed through the admission process because they had valuable resources. I suspect the cold war with the Klingons made the UFP so eager for allies and resources that they weren't too picky about the standards -- not unlike the way the real Cold War led the US to ally with brutal dictators as long as they were anti-communist.

But that's the thing -- the Trill aren't a recent member, not even as portrayed in "The Host."
 
I think it's also worth keeping in mind that Emony Dax did meet McCoy while he was in college on Earth (University of Missippi according to Memory Alpha) before TOS. MA said she was an Olympic Gymnast, who was there to judge a Gymnastics competition. So at that point people apparently were familiar enough with the Trill that they (or at least one of them) were competing in the Olmpics and being invited to Earth. I wonder what 24th Century Olympics would be like?
 
Regarding Troi's comment, this is just her subjective perspective. Maybe there isn't a lot in her psychological database about Trill as compared with other species, nor information to suit her particular areas of interest. She would decide this means "we know so little about them," even though we may know all there is to know about their computer systems, economy, system of government, etc.

Also as Christopher points out, the Federation is large and diverse. If I see someone here on Earth wearing cultural garb which is foreign to me, I'll certainly notice the funny hat or whatever, but I'll have no idea the significance even though they are a part of my planetary civilization. We know so little about them.

Let us not forget also that Troi is, on occasion, an imbecile. She may not have read the mission profile in detail (after all, this mission does not intersect much with her area of duty), or it may not have contained a section on esoteric Trill biology. She may be speaking specifically of herself and the senior staff ("we" does not necessarily mean the Federation). One could even read Picard's response to Troi as dismissive or appeasing ("Yes. Quite." I mean, what the hell? When does he ever say that?). Internally he may realize she is ignorant but not want to embarrass her by calling it out.

A primer file for a diplomatic mission where the Fed's ambassador just *happens* to be a particular race isn't going to need to include detailed information about *his* planet/culture/race of origin aside from what might be relevant to the crew supporting him through the mission, e.g. "Breathes Class M" or "Trill Blood Type G" or "Vegetarian Diet." He keeps his Joined status closeted, so it's not like the pamphlet is going to say "check closely for worms."

The transporter thing can be explained away as Odan being secretive or having a particular medical sensitivity (call it a beaming allergy). Odan suppressing his hosts' consciousnesses can be explained pretty handily as well...
1. The first host, we can reasonably accept is probably expressing a joined personality despite the fact Odan "simplifies" the explanation about who and what "Odan" is.
2. As for Riker, who clearly was suppressed, I'm thinking one of the following.
a) Human biological incompatibility to a blended joining
b) Riker's consciousness may be in some type of shock
c) Odan deliberately suppressed the joining of personalities in order to prevent becoming permanently dependent neurologically on a host that would likely die soon from the physiological stress
3. The third host, Kareel, we barely get to meet her and don't learn anything about her personality because of the ridiculously short time in which Crusher decides to shut her down due to an apparent distaste for lesbian relationships and an intolerance for variance in gender expression in her lovers. There's no telling what Kareel would have been like had we (or Crusher) had the chance to get to know her.

In fact, taking all this into consideration, with what Odan put the Enterprise crew through, coupled with what we later learn about Trills, "The Host" becomes a tragedy... because it was all completely unnecessary.
 
I dunno, Vulcans have seemed to keep their reproductive process a closely guarded secret too, and they were founding members. If we accept that one society can keep such a large secret, we kind of have to accept that others can too.

On a whole, the Federation doesn't seem to pry too deeply into their members' affairs, if said members don't want them to. Just look at Ardana. ("Oh, sorry, we never mentioned our entire subjected underclass? Must have slipped our minds!")

I find the Vulcan and Ardana things implausible, too. Though Vulcan I can buy a little bit more, as pon farr only comes up every seven years, and everyone seems to find it very distasteful. If Western literature can avoid mentioning homosexuality for so long, Vulcans can avoid pon farr. But Deep Space Nine presents joining as suffusing every element of Trill society. When Kid Jadzia went to Space Summer Camp, how did anyone stop her from mentioning "hey I want to be joined when I grow up" to her human cabinmate? It's not about top-down prying, it's just about people being people.
 
Regarding Troi's comment, this is just her subjective perspective. Maybe there isn't a lot in her psychological database about Trill as compared with other species, nor information to suit her particular areas of interest. She would decide this means "we know so little about them," even though we may know all there is to know about their computer systems, economy, system of government, etc.
...
Let us not forget also that Troi is, on occasion, an imbecile. She may not have read the mission profile in detail (after all, this mission does not intersect much with her area of duty), or it may not have contained a section on esoteric Trill biology.

This is a case where the fix makes less sense than the problem. Throughout the series, from the very start, it's been clear that one of Deanna Troi's primary functions aboard ship is to be what I call a contact specialist, the captain's chief advisor on alien societies and cross-cultural interactions. Despite how some scriptwriters may have mishandled the character on occasion, she wouldn't be in that position on the Federation "flagship" unless she were highly skilled at it.

Sometimes you just have to accept that this is not a documentary but a set of stories, and sometimes the storytellers decide they've made mistakes, or at least limiting choices, and retcon some elements, or at least aspects thereof, out of existence. It's quite clear that DS9's producers chose to retcon many of the more problematical elements of "The Host," and I think they were right to do so. So I'm not going to bend over backward trying to rationalize every last detail that doesn't fit, especially when the retcon works better. I'm sure as hell not going to disparage the entire character of one of the series' leads just to fix a niggling continuity glitch. That's like amputating a limb to treat a small wart.
 
(...)I'm sure as hell not going to disparage the entire character of one of the series' leads(...)

It may have been the writers' intent (we should ask David Gerrold what his ideas for Troi were when he wrote the TNG series bible), but the way it turned out is the Star Trek we have, and Deanna Troi drops the ball way too often and is commonly more a liability. She could have been strong and successful had they written her correctly, but she turned out to be just another wasted female character like so many others from 80's/90's TV...
 
3. The third host, Kareel, we barely get to meet her and don't learn anything about her personality because of the ridiculously short time in which Crusher decides to shut her down due to an apparent distaste for lesbian relationships and an intolerance for variance in gender expression in her lovers. There's no telling what Kareel would have been like had we (or Crusher) had the chance to get to know her.

Steady on, there. Some people are actually straight, and that doesn't necessarily mean they have a 'distaste' or an 'intolerance.' Just because boobs don't do it for her doesn't make her eeevil.

.
 
Right. Being heterosexual doesn't equate to being homophobic. After all, embracing diversity means being okay with people who are different from yourself. Crusher wasn't saying she objected to two women loving each other, just that she personally wasn't into women. And, beyond that, that she wasn't able to accept frequent changes in the identity of her lover.

(And this is another of the many things about "The Host" that DS9 retconned away, because according to "Rejoined," Trill are forbidden to associate with their past hosts' lovers anyway.)
 
^Yes, of course, but the point is that it contradicts the intent of "The Host," which treated it as normal and expected for the relationship to continue. In fact, "The Host" portrayed the personality as being entirely the property of the symbiont, with the host being essentially an empty shell. That was completely contradicted by DS9's interpretation. And yes, yes, yes, that can be rationalized away too, but that doesn't change the fact that DS9's writers chose to ignore the details of "The Host" and reinvent the species.
 
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