Trek's most ridiculous contentions...

[Tyberius]

I'm not defending the episode, its largely undefendable, but it is important to remember that evolution makes things different, it's not marching towards some pinnacle of uber-existence. If humans evolution for the next 50 million years was on a different world entirely, odds are the form that had an advantage would not be the same.

OK, that's a little better.

I remember some interview with Braga where he noted that this was supposed to be a high concept episode, but that it didn't quite make it there.

I suppose he didn't have the time or was too afraid of his audience to fully explore the concept.

 

[Timo]

There was plenty of meat in the element of "Tom Paris is bitter about not being Somebody" to carry the episode, really. The scifi elements of "transwarp" and "evolution" smacked of a B-plot rather than a concept that would dictate the course of the events...

While I sort of dig the idea of meddling proto-humanoids, I'd hate to put them in the same category with the amateurish Preserver meddlers. To me, the Preservers look more like the Brior of "The 37s" or the Skags of "North Star" than like the past-benevolent deities of the TNG episode.

And I do like the general idea that Earth's history would be the sum of umpteen alien interventions. That sort of arises from the very concept of Star Trek, really: the galaxy is full of aliens who travel through interstellar space and interact with each other. How could they not meddle in the course of history? With the level of technological excellence these space aliens portray, such meddling would not be the privilege of self-important interstellar cultures; it would also be something a drunken student from Alpha Omega 123 could do in his dimmer moments at the wheel of a space cruiser.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

Since Timo mentioned The 37s, I have a bit of a contention. It's too specific for this thread, but hey, the mention jogged my mind:

Amelia Earheart, adventurer extraordinaire, risk-taker supreme, and high-flyer in every sense of the word... decides to stay on a planet rather than go joy-riding throughout the cosmos in what was humanity's then-fastest starship at the time.

I find that a bit hard to believe.

 

[Orac Zen]

~ An android complex enough to warrant individuality and military command cannot make contractions, apparently one of the great boons of being human. Ain't it.

Agreed. Silly, but amusing and somehow endearing.

~ That any alien species would be reproductively compatible when species of the same planets aren't even!

Preservers / whatever or not, this too is truly ridiculous. People bitch about "Threshold" yet don't seem to have a problem with Spock's existence, which is (at the very least) just as absurd.

~ That all cultures are global and homogenous. (This one drives me crazy).

Agreed. Entire cultures / species / planetfuls of people who have identical hairstyles and wear identical clothing? How is that anything other than ridiculous?

Don't know if it qualifies, but the beings in the wormhole in DS9 that live outside of time, have no concept of time, yet are waiting for the Sisko and the fulfillment of a prophecy.

Glad I'm not the only one who found that notion rather...contradictory.

 

[Timo]

An android complex enough to warrant individuality and military command cannot make contractions, apparently one of the great boons of being human. Ain't it.

To be sure, that's something of a myth. Data never claims he cannot make contractions. He only asserts that he speaks very carefully, whether it be out of choice or due to his upbringing.

When "he" does not, in the simulation of TNG "Future Imperfect", Riker gets confirmation for his already established belief that this "Data" is but a fake, and thus he flaunts that piece of evidence at the fake - but that's as close as anybody ever comes to claiming that Data "cannot" use contractions. Indeed, every episode, from the first one onwards, stands proof that he can.

Don't know if it qualifies, but the beings in the wormhole in DS9 that live outside of time, have no concept of time, yet are waiting for the Sisko and the fulfillment of a prophecy.

That makes perfect sense, really. When Sisko visits them in DS9 "Emissary", they learn about the concept of linear time - but since they are still nonlinear by nature, this learning process affects their past, not just their future... They only start waiting for Sisko as the result of Sisko's arrival!

Entire cultures / species / planetfuls of people who have identical hairstyles and wear identical clothing? How is that anything other than ridiculous?

To be fair, we usually only see some officials or soldiers from the given planet, and at most visit one city on the surface. Such small pools of people would actually be likely to be homogeneous: the official representatives of a world would have an official dress code, and the inhabitants of a city would have a "city identity".

Did we ever visit multiple locations on a planet and witness similar homogeneity? Bajor was culturally diverse enough, between episodes like "Progress" or "The Storyteller" or "The Circle". The classic Vulcan hairstyle could be a governmental peculiarity, much as the wigs of British courts, as we do see other styles every now and then, usually on Starfleeters or other outcasts. And Romulans could be so uniform simply because they are so totalitarian.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JM1776]

Data never claims he cannot make contractions.

Actually, in "The Offspring," when his creation/"daughter" Lal employs a contraction, Data observes that doing so "is a skill my program never mastered" and that Lal has "exceeded" his "abilities."

 

[Timo]

Well, playing the pipe organ is a skill I never really "mastered", but I know enough to get through my sister's wedding.

It does remain a fact that Data readily says "it's" and "there's" through the seven seasons of TNG with nary a comment from his fellow crew - most tellingly in the very episode where his formal use of language supposedly separates him from his evil twin! But it may take some effort for him to speak informally, just like it's more difficult for me to speak Ebonics than English. That Lal gets it right "at an early age" should be grounds for celebration for the proud dad, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JM1776]

Well, playing the pipe organ is a skill I never really "mastered", but I know enough to get through my sister's wedding.

Now, now ... instead of sarcasm, a simple "I was wrong" will do.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, playing the pipe organ is a skill I never really "mastered", but I know enough to get through my sister's wedding.

It does remain a fact that Data readily says "it's" and "there's" through the seven seasons of TNG with nary a comment from his fellow crew - most tellingly in the very episode where his formal use of language supposedly separates him from his evil twin!

BTW, I have to wonder if it was a mistake. Considering it was mentioned in the episode how Data doesn't use contractions, it's such a glaring contradiction at the end. It makes one wonder for a second if Lore is still on the ship. I wonder if the scrip originally had him say that line.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Since Timo mentioned The 37s, I have a bit of a contention. It's too specific for this thread, but hey, the mention jogged my mind:

Amelia Earheart, adventurer extraordinaire, risk-taker supreme, and high-flyer in every sense of the word... decides to stay on a planet rather than go joy-riding throughout the cosmos in what was humanity's then-fastest starship at the time.

I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't blame her for staying on the planet. She could probably relate better to the humans there. I'm guessing that the cities on that planet didn't have technology that was as advanced as Voyager - a ship where someone like Earhart would be quite out of their element.

Especially since neither she, nor anyone else at that time, could say for sure that Voyager would ever make it back home. Earhart might not have wanted to stay on a starship for what might have been the rest of her life.

 

[Daedalus12]

And the Irish saved it!

Indeed you did! You saved what the Greco-Romans gave you.

I win.

Of course the Greeks claim otherwise because they like to think the Romans contributed nothing more than rubbish.

A passage from the preface of the Nonlinear Control textbook authored by one of my professors.

The golden age of Greece, which set the standard for western civilization and whose glory has transcended time itself, was superseded by the Roman imperialists who brought nothing more than sterility to science and mathematics. The Romans produced no new knowledge or improvements to science and mathematics; all their contributions to civilization amount to minor technical details of engineering. However, they did steal and copy the arts and humanities from the Greeks and gloriously paraded them as their own throughout the ages. The derailment of the pursuit for abstract science and mathematics in favor of practicality obfuscated scientific scholarship. This, along with religious fundamentalism, plunged civilization into the dark ages. The intellectual light (fw) that was gifted to the world by the ancient Greeks and provided the pathway for unlocking the most intriguing mysteries of our world lay idle for over one thousand years. It was not until the fall of Byzantium to barbaric Ottoman tribes from Mongolia that caused Greek scholars to flee to Florence, Venice, and Rome sparking a revival in learning and humanism. This renaissance or rebirth (angènhs) led to the scientific revolution which further led to the marvels of modern-day science and engineering.

 

[JM1776]

Well, he's quite the Philhellene, isn't he?

Rather than taking us even further off-topic, I'll say this: Rome clearly owes Greece much of her culture. Equally, Greece owes Rome a great deal of her fame.

 

[Cyke101]

Since Timo mentioned The 37s, I have a bit of a contention. It's too specific for this thread, but hey, the mention jogged my mind:

Amelia Earheart, adventurer extraordinaire, risk-taker supreme, and high-flyer in every sense of the word... decides to stay on a planet rather than go joy-riding throughout the cosmos in what was humanity's then-fastest starship at the time.

I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't blame her for staying on the planet. She could probably relate better to the humans there. I'm guessing that the cities on that planet didn't have technology that was as advanced as Voyager - a ship where someone like Earhart would be quite out of their element.

Especially since neither she, nor anyone else at that time, could say for sure that Voyager would ever make it back home. Earhart might not have wanted to stay on a starship for what might have been the rest of her life.

Actually, that's why I highlighted the fact that he was a risk-taker and adventurer extraordinaire. She didn't even give spaceflight a second thought!

That's like saying had Beethoven been revived today, that he'd be terrified and stay away from CDs, MP3s, Casio organs, synthesizers, and turntables. However, the great and factually-accurate documentary Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure proved otherwise.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Feminism reigns supreme in Trek, but women wear miniskirts and are mostly in support roles.

Riker has quite literally raped Troi, yet she has no problem dating and later marrying him. Methinks Imzadi is betazed for idiot.

Kirk has never been hit with a paternity suit.

Humans are the most evolved beings in the galaxy, despite having gotten to the big dance thousands of years late, having a nuclear WW3, enjoying Orgainan slave women, having a revolt of the poor against hyperrepublicanism, and so on. Silly Vulcans thinking that being logical, nonviolent, and 1000 years ahead of us makes them equal to us.

Troi has a Russian accent, even though her parents don't.

All biological variation in the future is limited to the forehead region. Bah Babylon 5 and their insane idea that there might be reptiles in space.

All hybrids experiance perpetual war between the two "halves" of their psyche, leaving the victim of multiracialism the choice of which "half" to embrace. I mean really, my Irish half has been at war with my German half my entire life (which is why i like bratwusrt and corned beef).

A ship can be controlled by a single joystick or a hologram. So we send a crew of 1000s into uncharterd territory. You know something's wrong when NASA is smarter than Starfleet.

All ships require more crew the more advanced they get. Even though most of our technologies require fewer people to opperate than the previous generation.

 

[Cyke101]

Riker has quite literally raped Troi, yet she has no problem dating and later marrying him. Methinks Imzadi is betazed for idiot.

I remember this happening, but I don't remember when. I need a refresher.

Kirk has never been hit with a paternity suit.

Well, most guys run into their cars and burn rubber when they find out they have a love child. What do you expect out of a guy with a ship capable of FTL speeds?

Troi has a Russian accent, even though her parents don't.

For that matter, Worf doesn't have a russian accent, even though both of his parents do.

A ship can be controlled by a single joystick or a hologram. So we send a crew of 1000s into uncharterd territory. You know something's wrong when NASA is smarter than Starfleet.

To be fair to the joystick, we've only seen that once and probably only as an emergency or special maneuver.

However, you're right-on about the holograms.

All ships require more crew the more advanced they get. Even though most of our technologies require fewer people to opperate than the previous generation.

Bigger ships, maybe? *shrugs*

 

[Anwar]

Well, the Troi thing was explained that Sirtis wanted Troi to seem more alien in that she spoke with an "alien"-like accent. Then when Lwaxana showed up she spoke with an American accent so the in-universe explanation was that her human father was Eastern-European and that was where she got the accent from.

 

[Balthier the Great]

The mind rape thing was revealled in the ep with the two aliens who could retreive memories. The memory of riker-rape put her in a coma. ** Note to self, learn episode names.

And I stand by the technology thing -- 100 years ago, there were opperators who had to manually connect the calls. Now, we let the cell phone tower do the work. Same with automation in factories, and things like that. New technology starts out requiring a lot of human help, but eventually the system gets advanced enough to where you don't need humans to babysit. I think that would mean that crews should be getting smaller, especially in more dangerous territory. Why lose 1000 men when you could pop a command hologram on the ship and only risk the ship and the hologram? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Kio]

Why lose 1000 men when you could pop a command hologram on the ship and only risk the ship and the hologram? It just doesn't make sense.

Aren't you thinking of the future of the Trek universe, maybe 100-200 years after Voyager got home? So far, there's only been one command hologram and that was kind of experimental. Janeway addressed the issue of why we fling people into space when talking to 7 of 9. To paraphrase, she said we're born explorers who want see things first hand, otherwise we would have built a fleet of probes.

But I totally don't understand the huge crew sizes, and I agree that it should take fewer people to run newer ships. If the average crew size is 1000, and we only see about 50 of these people doing something useful, what the hell are the other 950 doing there? I wish they'd done more to explain that.

 

[kv1at3485]

You don't even need the hologram. Bare bones: all you really need is the computer program. If one insisted on adding meatbags into the mix you could get away with a minuscule number, just enough to give general directives to controlling software. (Number of shifts times 2 or something, just for redundency.)

As for the 100's of other people on board large ships, those would be scientists, pseudo-scientists, and the average Joe's simply wanting off their homerocks for a bit.

This does assume something rather tenuous given Trek tech: computers with good security and reliability. Given their record, it's little wonder they have to load up on the redshirts.

 

[Bak_and_Blue]

^^dudes, don't you remember Kirk's speech in The Ultimate Computer? That's why they need people and not just holograms or computers.