TrekLit politics

[Smellincoffee]

I once named a ship USS Robert Ingersoll. Kudos to ANYONE who recognizes that name.

Spoiler: Colonel Bob

Ingersoll was a Gilded Age-era lawyer, lecturer, and orator who promoted women's rights, universal suffrage, an eight-hour working day, and other hallmarks of a progressive society: known most for his work as an orator where he promoted the virtues and glories of civilization while condemning monarchy and supernaturalism in the same breath. Most of his works are available here.

I could also see naming ships the Keir Hardie, Jawaharlal Nehru, Eugene Debs, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and a few others. I'd like to see a ship named after Marcus Aurelius, but it seems somewhat inappropriate for a progressive society like the Federation to name a ship after an old-school emperor...even if he was one of the best.

 

[Christopher]

I'd like to see a ship named after Marcus Aurelius, but it seems somewhat inappropriate for a progressive society like the Federation to name a ship after an old-school emperor...even if he was one of the best.

Well, I named a Starfleet vessel the Ashoka in Ex Machina. Ashoka was an "old-school emperor" in India, but definitely one of the best -- starting out as a ruthless conqueror, he grew sick of the violence, had a religious epiphany, and dedicated the rest of his reign to promoting Buddhist principles, peace, and the good of his people. He was one of the first rulers in history to codify the concept that a ruler's responsibility was to serve the needs of the people rather than personal power and ambition.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I'd like to see a ship named after Marcus Aurelius, but it seems somewhat inappropriate for a progressive society like the Federation to name a ship after an old-school emperor...even if he was one of the best.

Well, I named a Starfleet vessel the Ashoka in Ex Machina. Ashoka was an "old-school emperor" in India, but definitely one of the best -- starting out as a ruthless conqueror, he grew sick of the violence, had a religious epiphany, and dedicated the rest of his reign to promoting Buddhist principles, peace, and the good of his people. He was one of the first rulers in history to codify the concept that a ruler's responsibility was to serve the needs of the people rather than personal power and ambition.

And the movie - Asoka - is pretty decent.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I'd have the same reaction if an somebody from Ireland or Germany came in here and said "A woman could never become president of the United States" just because the Irish have elected a female president and the Germans a female Chancellor.

I'd be far less impressed with a female President of Ireland, since the Irish Presidency is mostly ceremonial and it's the Taoseach (Prime Minister) who has real power.

Technically, Ireland has elected two female Presidents. And according to the New York Times, the new Taoiseach is a woman.








They thought Enda was a girl's name. It's not.

Having said that, given that the Presidency was traditionally a dumping ground for the Old Boys, the significance of there having been two consecutive female Presidents shouldn't be overlooked. Admittedly, it's nowhere near as significant as the election of President Obama but I still think it was a pretty significant achievement.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd like to see a ship named after Marcus Aurelius, but it seems somewhat inappropriate for a progressive society like the Federation to name a ship after an old-school emperor...even if he was one of the best.

As an old-school Star Trek computer game fan, I would love that. There was a version of the BASIC Super Star Trek game that would, seemingly at random, spit out long quotes from The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. And then you could abandon the Enterprise and command the USS Fairie Queene.

If anyone out there has a copy of the source code for that game, I'd love to get my hands on it...

 

[Myasishchev]

Personally, I think it would be appropriate were a (possibly) left-leaning star fleet of a united Earth named all their ships for either scientists or historic political martyrs.

Like the USS von Braun.

I still maintain they just don't care about the negative parts of any given name's history, in the same way (as noted long above) that contemporary folks don't think twice about Andrew Jackson being on a twenty dollar bill, or every third thing in the Union getting named after Thomas Jefferson, instead of someone pleasant.

Also, why would you want to read a book by an author who didn't put his politics into it? Would you prefer a book produced by a novel-writing algorithm? Where's Heart of Darkness without the Hobbesian view of humanity and distracting racism? Where's The Great Gatsby without the hatred of rich people? I'd rather read Nazi propaganda leaflets than a work without any convictions at all.

 

[Destructor]

I'd rather read Nazi propaganda leaflets than a work without any convictions at all.

I think this thread has demonstrated that it's not putting politics into Trek Lit that's the problem, it's putting politics that the reader doesn't agree with into Trek Lit that is the problem.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Nah...just if the plot doesn't call for it--and if the other side isn't presented respectfully.

I personally hate a negative stereotype of a Liberal idea as much as I do one of a Conservative idea. No shortcuts--show us a REAL discussion. Make us think. Cause some soul-searching. But don't give us the shortcut of a straw man--of either side.

 

[Myasishchev]

Nah...just if the plot doesn't call for it--and if the other side isn't presented respectfully.

That sort of misses the point of authorship, right?

 

[Captain Robert April]

No, what you seem to be advocating is the point of propagandism, which isn't exactly the same thing.

 

[Sci]

I still maintain they just don't care about the negative parts of any given name's history, in the same way (as noted long above) that contemporary folks don't think twice about Andrew Jackson being on a twenty dollar bill,

I'd love to see that monster taken off the money and replaced with someone decent. Say, FDR or JFK.

or every third thing in the Union getting named after Thomas Jefferson, instead of someone pleasant.

That always bugs me, too. I'd love it if John Adams got more respect for his contributions to the Revolution and the early government.

Also, why would you want to read a book by an author who didn't put his politics into it? Would you prefer a book produced by a novel-writing algorithm? Where's Heart of Darkness without the Hobbesian view of humanity and distracting racism? Where's The Great Gatsby without the hatred of rich people? I'd rather read Nazi propaganda leaflets than a work without any convictions at all.

Quoted For Truth.

Nah...just if the plot doesn't call for it--and if the other side isn't presented respectfully.

Do all sides in a political debate deserve to be treated respectfully?

If you're doing, for instance, "Far Beyond the Stars" -- the treatment of black people was a very real political debate. Would it really be right to give equal respect to, say, the idea that segregation is a good thing?

 

[BillJ]

Do all sides in a political debate deserve to be treated respectfully?

If you're doing, for instance, "Far Beyond the Stars" -- the treatment of black people was a very real political debate. Would it really be right to give equal respect to, say, the idea that segregation is a good thing?

Do you have to acknowledge it's a good thing? No. Do you respect the opposition on any given issue? Absolutely.

 

[Sci]

Do all sides in a political debate deserve to be treated respectfully?

If you're doing, for instance, "Far Beyond the Stars" -- the treatment of black people was a very real political debate. Would it really be right to give equal respect to, say, the idea that segregation is a good thing?

Do you have to acknowledge it's a good thing? No. Do you respect the opposition on any given issue?

No. I do not respect the opposition when the opposition is Sheriff Bull Connor. I do not respect the opposition when it's David Duke. I do not respect the opposition when it's a segregationist.

 

[beamMe]

Like the USS von Braun.

Every drop of paint used for the letters of that name would a terrible, awful waste.

 

[BillJ]

Do all sides in a political debate deserve to be treated respectfully?

If you're doing, for instance, "Far Beyond the Stars" -- the treatment of black people was a very real political debate. Would it really be right to give equal respect to, say, the idea that segregation is a good thing?

Do you have to acknowledge it's a good thing? No. Do you respect the opposition on any given issue?

No. I do not respect the opposition when the opposition is Sheriff Bull Connor. I do not respect the opposition when it's David Duke. I do not respect the opposition when it's a segregationist.

Sure you do. Or you end up looking just as close-minded as the opposition.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

To be honest, I cannot think of a single (real-life) politician of any description who I would seriously consider naming a ship after. None are deserving of that honour. Then again, my outlook on things tends to differ considerably from most people's...

 

[DimesDan]

Do you have to acknowledge it's a good thing? No. Do you respect the opposition on any given issue?

No. I do not respect the opposition when the opposition is Sheriff Bull Connor. I do not respect the opposition when it's David Duke. I do not respect the opposition when it's a segregationist.

Sure you do. Or you end up look just as close-minded as the opposition.

Which is something some so-called liberals are very much guilty of which gives the rest of us a bad name.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I still maintain they just don't care about the negative parts of any given name's history, in the same way (as noted long above) that contemporary folks don't think twice about Andrew Jackson being on a twenty dollar bill,

I'd love to see that monster taken off the money and replaced with someone decent. Say, FDR or JFK.

JFK, maybe. But surely, if you'd condemn Jackson as a "monster" for what he did to the Cherokees, etc. (and as someone with Cherokee blood in my veins, I understand completely)--surely you wouldn't let FDR off the hook for what he did to the Japanese, and call him "decent"?

Pesonally...I'd go for Coolidge, or Reagan.

or every third thing in the Union getting named after Thomas Jefferson, instead of someone pleasant.

That always bugs me, too. I'd love it if John Adams got more respect for his contributions to the Revolution and the early government.

I agree somewhat about Adams (I know--rare). But something should be said about the Alien and Sedition acts which he signed....

 

[Rush Limborg]

Do you have to acknowledge it's a good thing? No. Do you respect the opposition on any given issue?

No. I do not respect the opposition when the opposition is Sheriff Bull Connor. I do not respect the opposition when it's David Duke. I do not respect the opposition when it's a segregationist.

Sure you do. Or you end up looking just as close-minded as the opposition.

Which is something some so-called liberals are very much guilty of which gives the rest of us a bad name.

QFT.

Now, me for example: I personally think the Westboro Non-Baptists are deplorable, disgusting frauds who use the banner of "church" so they can get their ideas of Anti-Americanism, Anti-Semitism, and Homosexual-Hating out into the public forum. But were I to encounter one of them, rather than yell at them and call them names, I would challenge them and debate them--and systematically own them.

Hard? Sure. More rewarding than simple shrugging off of their beliefs? Absolutely.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

Personally, I think it would be appropriate were a (possibly) left-leaning star fleet of a united Earth named all their ships for either scientists or historic political martyrs.

USS Huey Long?