TrekLit politics

[Christopher]

And of course, "Only Nixon could go to China" is not a Vulcan proverb any more than "Revenge is a dish best served cold" is a Klingon proverb. Nicholas Meyer seems to enjoy the joke of taking pre-existing real-life expressions and having characters attribute them to alien cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_goes_to_China

The phrase originated prior to Nixon's actual visit to China. An early use of the phrase is found in a December 1971 U.S. News & World Report interview with then-United States Senate Democratic Leader Mike Mansfield, in a section summary lead that read "'Only a Nixon' Could Go to China". The actual quote from Mansfield (which he prefaces by noting he had heard it said before) was "Only a Republican, perhaps only a Nixon, could have made this break and gotten away with it."

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Was Washington a Republican or a Democrat? The correct answer is "No." And although he is sometimes identified with the Federalist party (which took its name from the proponents of the Constitution, and from their pamphlet campaign), there were no political parties at the time he was elected.

As to Diane Carey's decidedly hard-Libertarian leanings (I believe Piper, her "Mary-Sue," expressed them rather eloquently), she does have a point, in that anything that unnecessarily or unreasonably denies individuals the right to pursue what they feel is best for themselves can hardly be called "the common good." (Then again, even the late Rev'd Dr. Gene Scott, of "bureaucratic monkey band" fame, had his occasional lucid moments.)

 

[Sci]

Was Washington a Republican or a Democrat? The correct answer is "No." And although he is sometimes identified with the Federalist party (which took its name from the proponents of the Constitution, and from their pamphlet campaign), there were no political parties at the time he was elected.

True, but Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party and Hamilton's Federalist Party both developed during his presidency, and by the end of it, Washington was heavily leaning towards Hamilton's camp even if he wasn't officially a Federalist.

So I think that someone could make a reasonable case that President Washington was a Federalist, even if fact if not on paper.

But, yeah, it's ahistorical nonsense to claim that George Washington would "likely" be a Republican. For one thing, the founding premise of the Republican Party is that slavery is immoral, and Washington rather infamously owned many slaves.

 

[Sci]

Here's a question for everyone, though. If you were a TrekLit author, what current or historical political leaders might you name a Federation starship after?

I'd probably include:

- U.S.S. Harvey Milk
- U.S.S. Alice Paul
- U.S.S. Lucy Burns
- U.S.S. Keith Ellison
- U.S.S. John Lewis
- U.S.S. César Chávez
- U.S.S. Lech Wałęsa
- U.S.S. Nelson Mandela
- U.S.S. Raúl Alfonsín
- U.S.S. Madres de la Plaza de Mayo
- U.S.S. Ernesto Sábato
- U.S.S. Aung San Suu Kyi

 

[Dancing Doctor]

^You've got quite a few of the people I would have chosen in your list there.

(Does it matter, I wonder, if you just use the last name of the person?)

I'd have:

U.S.S. Frances Perkins
U.S.S. Barbara Castle
U.S.S. Margot Wallström
U.S.S. Bella Abzug
U.S.S. F.W. de Klerk
U.S.S. Desmond Tutu
U.S.S. Shirin Ebadi

 

[David cgc]

Here's a question for everyone, though. If you were a TrekLit author, what current or historical political leaders might you name a Federation starship after?

I'd probably include:

- U.S.S. Harvey Milk
- U.S.S. Alice Paul
- U.S.S. Lucy Burns
- U.S.S. Keith Ellison
- U.S.S. John Lewis
- U.S.S. César Chávez
- U.S.S. Lech Wałęsa
- U.S.S. Nelson Mandela
- U.S.S. Raúl Alfonsín
- U.S.S. Madres de la Plaza de Mayo
- U.S.S. Ernesto Sábato
- U.S.S. Aung San Suu Kyi

I've gotta wonder how some of those accent marks would look in all-caps Microgramma (or USAF stencil for ENT and TOS-era ships).

Ships of the Line 2011 featured the U.S.S. John Glenn (the first American in space, and later a United States Senator from the State of Ohio).

Tiny little nitpick, but Alan Shepherd was the first American in space. John Glenn was the first American to orbit the Earth (Shepherd and Gus Grissom just went up then came right back down).

 

[Sci]

Here's a question for everyone, though. If you were a TrekLit author, what current or historical political leaders might you name a Federation starship after?

I'd probably include:

- U.S.S. Harvey Milk
- U.S.S. Alice Paul
- U.S.S. Lucy Burns
- U.S.S. Keith Ellison
- U.S.S. John Lewis
- U.S.S. César Chávez
- U.S.S. Lech Wałęsa
- U.S.S. Nelson Mandela
- U.S.S. Raúl Alfonsín
- U.S.S. Madres de la Plaza de Mayo
- U.S.S. Ernesto Sábato
- U.S.S. Aung San Suu Kyi

I've gotta wonder how some of those accent marks would look in all-caps Microgramma (or USAF stencil for ENT and TOS-era ships).

I think it would look fine.

Ships of the Line 2011 featured the U.S.S. John Glenn (the first American in space, and later a United States Senator from the State of Ohio).

Tiny little nitpick, but Alan Shepherd was the first American in space. John Glenn was the first American to orbit the Earth (Shepherd and Gus Grissom just went up then came right back down).

Oops! My mistake. Thanks for catching that!

^You've got quite a few of the people I would have chosen in your list there.

"Ain't I a stinker?"

(Does it matter, I wonder, if you just use the last name of the person?)

Canonical Trek has traditionally just used last names for some reason, but TrekLit has done both. Christopher L. Bennett's Greater Than the Sum, for instance, featured the U.S.S. Bhutto rather than the U.S.S. Benazir Bhutto. But David R. George III's Rough Beasts of Empire featured the U.S.S. James T. Kirk rather than the U.S.S. Kirk (though characters did refer to the James T. Kirk as "the Kirk" when speaking casually).

Personally, I prefer to include the full name out of specificity. There have been a lot of Pauls throughout history -- but calling a ship the Alice Paul makes it clear who it's named for.

U.S.S. F.W. de Klerk

You're quite a bit less cynical about de Klerk than I am -- I don't view him as a guy who willingly handed over power, I view him as a man who ended apartheid because he had no other real choice -- and who rigged the negotiations so that white South Africans would retain a position of economic dominance even in a post-apartheid era.

 

[David cgc]

I've gotta wonder how some of those accent marks would look in all-caps Microgramma (or USAF stencil for ENT and TOS-era ships).

I think it would look fine.

"My dog has no nose." "How does he smell?" "Awful!"

I meant what they would look like, visually. I was just curious because there aren't many examples of nonstandard characters on hulls in Star Trek, and I just checked and my own copies of those fonts don't include some of them.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Here's a question for everyone, though. If you were a TrekLit author, what current or historical political leaders might you name a Federation starship after?

Well, today is the 150th anniversary of Italian unification, so I'll be parochial and say:

- U.S.S. Giuseppe Garibaldi
- U.S.S. Giuseppe Mazzini
- U.S.S. Daniele Manin

I'd love to see a U.S.S Camillo Benso of Cavour, but even if I personally admire the man and his vision, he made some very questionable decisions and I see why many people would oppose such nomination.

For more recent names, I'd say:

- U.S.S. Luigi Einaudi
- U.S.S. Altiero Spinelli
- U.S.S. Sandro Pertini
- U.S.S. Aldo Moro

 

[Rush Limborg]

And, to try to get back to Trek, were any Starships named after any world leader? In addition, named after any Democratic and/or Republican U.S. President?

The video game Star Trek: Armada featured a U.S.S. M.L. King, Jr.. The video game Star Trek: Starfleet Command III featured a U.S.S. Reagan, which may have been named after Ronald Reagan, and a U.S.S. Thatcher, likely named after former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Other video games have featured ships named U.S.S. Washington (after George Washington, presumably) and U.S.S. Victoria (after the former Queen-Empress of the British Empire).

How Much for Just the Planet? featured a ship called the U.S.S. Robert Moses, presumably named after the famous architect and city planner.

Thanks for all your comments and lists of all the world leaders and politicians whose names adorn star ships.

So, focusing on the U.S. Presidents, based on your post and a few others we have:

U.S.S. Washington (likely a Republican based on this, but the 2 dominat parties didn't exist then)

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy (Democrat)

U.S.S. Reagan (Republican)

I.K.S. Nixon (Republican and Spock also referenced him in more glowing terms in one of the movies I think; something about going to China I think.)

Interesting. That it?

Interesting.

Fascinating!

A U.S.S. Reagan...hmm. I'd be proud to serve on that girl.

Considering how supremely awesome the carrier U.S.S. Reagan is...I wonder how the starship looks.... Any info on what class it is?

Was Washington a Republican or a Democrat? The correct answer is "No." And although he is sometimes identified with the Federalist party (which took its name from the proponents of the Constitution, and from their pamphlet campaign), there were no political parties at the time he was elected.

True, but Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party and Hamilton's Federalist Party both developed during his presidency, and by the end of it, Washington was heavily leaning towards Hamilton's camp even if he wasn't officially a Federalist.

So I think that someone could make a reasonable case that President Washington was a Federalist, even if fact if not on paper.

But, yeah, it's ahistorical nonsense to claim that George Washington would "likely" be a Republican. For one thing, the founding premise of the Republican Party is that slavery is immoral, and Washington rather infamously owned many slaves.

True...but to be fair, it's worth noting that he freed all his slaves in his will.

 

[BillJ]

I'm waiting for the U.S.S. Ivana Tinkle.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

According to Memory Beta, the U.S.S. Reagan is an Akira-class

 

[Sci]

A U.S.S. Reagan...hmm. I'd be proud to serve on that girl.

Considering how supremely awesome the carrier U.S.S. Reagan is...I wonder how the starship looks.... Any info on what class it is?

From Ronald D. Moore's old AOL board, dated 7 April 1997 (adapted for this BBS's quotes feature):

Could you give us the names of the current DS9 runabouts please.

I believe they are Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Limbaugh, and Kahvis. Right, Ron?

No, those would be the names for the ships that clean out waste extraction from the station on a weekly basis. (Okay, except the Kahvis. That's the ship with the broken helm control. It keeps pulling to the right.)

Was Washington a Republican or a Democrat? The correct answer is "No." And although he is sometimes identified with the Federalist party (which took its name from the proponents of the Constitution, and from their pamphlet campaign), there were no political parties at the time he was elected.

True, but Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party and Hamilton's Federalist Party both developed during his presidency, and by the end of it, Washington was heavily leaning towards Hamilton's camp even if he wasn't officially a Federalist.

So I think that someone could make a reasonable case that President Washington was a Federalist, even if fact if not on paper.

But, yeah, it's ahistorical nonsense to claim that George Washington would "likely" be a Republican. For one thing, the founding premise of the Republican Party is that slavery is immoral, and Washington rather infamously owned many slaves.

True...but to be fair, it's worth noting that he freed all his slaves in his will.

Sure. But he still wasn't a Republican. Or a Democrat. He was a Federalist-leaning Independent.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Who is Kahvis?

 

[Sci]

Who is Kahvis?

I'm honestly not sure.

 

[William Leisner]

Who is Kahvis?

I'm honestly not sure.

I believe "Kahvis" was the screen name of the politically opinionated AOL poster who compiled that list of names.

 

[Sci]

Who is Kahvis?

I'm honestly not sure.

I believe "Kahvis" was the screen name of the politically opinionated AOL poster who compiled that list of names.

Ah, okay.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Ya hadda be there...

 

[Thestral]

I wouldn't name ships after any individual people, except mythical or semi-historical ones (a la USS Arthur, USS Gilgamesh). I think the current US Navy practice of naming carriers after Presidents or other political figures is odious. As much as I smiled at the idea of naming a ship USS James T Kirk, I disagree with that one too.

I'd make an exception for names with a naval history attached to them, or of course names that are attached to geographic locales.

And, of course, there's Earth Station McKinley, so there's at least some precedent for a space station being named in honor of U.S. Presidents.

 

[DimesDan]

This has got me thinking about naming ships after famous politicians, it is late here though, on a Friday so these are just the first that have come in to my head.

Because she was the first and thus far only female PM Britain has had and even though I hate the bitch with ever fibre of my body: USS Margaret Thatcher.

Regardless of what suspect things they did in power, both here and in Ireland, they did bring a semblance of peace to Northern Ireland: USS Tony Blair and USS Bertie Ahern

Broadening this out to individuals with a political agenda/cause: USS Emmeiline Pankhurst

My girlfriend (who is Irish) just came up with this chap: USS Daniel O'Connell

And finally and possibly the two most deserving of my little list: USS Winston Churchill and USS Charles De Gaulle